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MAME 0.36 Beta 9.1! - November 13,1999 by JoseQ
Update: Nicola has made a new small update to yesterday's MAME release. This one contains the correct version number, aswell as a couple of TMS34010 bug fixes submitted yesterday just after therelease. It also includes some changes to the license. Enjoy!
As mentioned in the Rumor Mill, Nicola has released a new version of MAME. You can download it from the EmulatorDownload Page right now! Only 7 new games includedin this release, a couple of them being Soccer games!This version is also compiled with the latest WIP Allegrorelease. Here's the list of new games as included in NicolasMailnote and the whatsnew.txt file:

  • Kick and Run [Nicola Salmoria, Ernesto Corvi]
  • KiKi KaiKai [Nicola Salmoria, Ernesto Corvi]
  • Perfect Soldiers [Bryan McPhail]
  • Big Striker [Luca Elia]
  • Kick Off [Luca Elia]
  • Dream Soccer '94 [Bryan McPhail]
  • Kageki [Takahiro Nogi]

    For those wondering, the 34010 changes were includedin this build as far as I know. These new ROMs are available at the MAME 0.36b9 ROMs Lite Page along with therespective screenshots. Enjoy!

    One Article Up: ROMLIST Releases GunLock!
    One Article Down: From A to Z, EmuViews does C64!

  • Add Your Comments

    Name: Alex Posted: Saturday, November 20, 1999 - (21:48)
    Subject: emulador
    From:
    ultimate version mame for windows

    [Post a reply]

    Name: kipz@sprint.ca Posted: Saturday, November 20, 1999 - (5:56)
    Subject: Rastan
    From:
    Beta 3.4(7)
    Sound close gaffiix ex]
    same bugs as arcade no response from mail
    no wepon sprites
    respond please
    "close but no cookie"
    3.4 b7 best

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Dorsola Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - (14:09)
    Subject: Geez, think you made that rant long enough?
    From:
    Okay guys... I'm not JoseQ, so I don't know what his take on this is. But I'm starting to see this board turn into a flaming area. Let's not do this here, okay? It's one thing to express your opinions and have a discussion about a topic, but it's entirely another to start flaming someone.

    If you need to flame each other, could you kindly take it elsewhere? Thanks.

    [Post a reply]

     Name: (-o-) Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - (21:38)
    Subject: Re: Geez, think you made that rant long enough?
    From:

    >If you need to flame each other, could you kindly take it elsewhere? Thanks.

    I agree with you... I guess it's been my fault...

    sorry JoseQ...

    [Post a reply]

     Name: (-o-) Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - (21:37)
    Subject: Re: Geez, think you made that rant long enough?
    From:

    >If you need to flame each other, could you kindly take it elsewhere? Thanks.

    I agree with you... I guess it's been my fault...

    sorry JoseQ...

    [Post a reply]

     Name: init Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - (21:17)
    Subject: ok i take it all back
    From:
    but, thers gotta be an editorial on emu-ethics somewhere on the web. joseq? im really tired of the way ppl disregard licensing for actual game makers and hold all high and holy the rights of an emu-maker. i dont see it as anything but hipocrisy. and furthermore, a lot of ppl are hipocritical, just because mame and other emus are "too cool".. which i agree. but, u cant go off about how mame's rights should be respected w/o mentioning the game companies' rights. i think an honest editorial on our scene is overdue.

    [Post a reply]

     Name: ali Posted: Friday, March 4, 2005 - (10:05)
    Subject: Re: ok i take it all back
    From: 85.99.185.207
    >but, thers gotta be an editorial on emu-ethics somewhere on the web. joseq? im really tired of the way ppl disregard licensing for actual game makers and hold all high and holy the rights of an emu-maker. i dont see it as anything but hipocrisy. and furthermore, a lot of ppl are hipocritical, just because mame and other emus are "too cool".. which i agree. but, u cant go off about how mame's rights should be respected w/o mentioning the game companies' rights. i think an honest editorial on our scene is overdue.
    >

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Dorsola Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - (22:32)
    Subject: Re: ok i take it all back
    From: 85.99.185.207
    >but, thers gotta be an editorial on emu-ethics
    >somewhere on the web. joseq? im really tired of
    >the way ppl disregard licensing for actual game
    >makers and hold all high and holy the rights of
    >an emu-maker. i dont see it as anything but
    >hipocrisy. and furthermore, a lot of ppl are
    >hipocritical, just because mame and other emus
    >are "too cool".. which i agree. but, u cant go
    >off about how mame's rights should be respected
    >w/o mentioning the game companies' rights. i
    >think an honest editorial on our scene is
    >overdue.

    And I'm not saying I don't agree with you, init. Your points are very valid. I'm just trying to keep us from getting into a flame war on Jose's board - that's the last thing this site needs.

    [Post a reply]

    Name: init Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - (0:27)
    Subject: fool.....
    From: 85.99.185.207
    -it seems to me your idea of copyright is somewhat inexistent...

    laugh. this is coming from a MAME user? lol. none of us respect copyrights if we use mame or any other emu. hipocrit.

    -I'll tell you a couple things they can_ do:
    - stop releasing the source
    - stop releasing MAME

    i have to laugh again.. if they would end MAME cuz of little Timmy, then they surely are lame. Tim means no harm, "lame" release he compiles or not. MAME team making too big a deal over nothing and if they choose to end MAME, which is the ONLY thing they could do as punishment, i still wouldnt blame Tim for that. anyone who would say "Tim killed MAME" would be a friggin lamer and any intelligent person knows what a copout that would be. so, they cant do sh!t, and sound kinda dumb tellin "Tim" what to do and rewording their textfile because of one man and his harmless mod.

    - tyred of people (lamers) bothering

    them... well, gee maybe they should release only binaries to the public, source to trusted individuals... they are asking for ppl to turn games on and whatnot right now.. . then they throw a hissy.

    -the same as before... how the hell the scene they are in influence their rights?... well, they trounce all over the rights of others to build mame.. and mame encourages rom piracy by all of us, so i think they should realize when they do it, its actually far worse "copyright infringememnt" than tim could ever do. its called being moronic, dillusional, or a hipocrit. i value honesty and fairness over someone's programming skills myself.(besides, mame is a product of mant many ppl, just because nicola thinks its "his" dont mean a lot to me. im sure many mamedev just wanna gtet back to coding and could care less about this petty bullsh!t.) i admit i own many roms which i dont own. i dont think this is unfair bcuz they are old and obsolete and cost no one any revenue loss.

    -they can release whatever they want (if they wish to release)... in any way they want... and under any licence terms they want... they OWN it... do you see it?... it should be very easy for anyone to understand...

    understood, and they can also whine and bitch when their source code gets modified and compiled... or they could stop releasing the source(i think they wish they werent open source anymore, yet still have all the team members that would never have contributed had it not been so) understand that?

    -Tim's release is lame because don't make any real improvement whatsoever...

    i could care less if its tim's bob's jimmy's or rodimus's.... i only use the standard dos port myself. that wasnt the point. the point is... Tim gets publicly dumped on again by ppl in emulation that are nothing but asskissers to emu programmers... even when they are dillusional like those behind mame that expect everyone to follow their stupid rules. folx, it emulation, its no big deal and i cant believe these ppl have to worry about ppl hacking their source code to play a video game. extremely lame. look the other way, just as the software companies look the other way whwen they see their video games running under mame. hipocrisy at its finest.

    -> i dont like being told what to do <
    -yours is a "good" attitude... someone in your position should _not_ get involved in someplace where you may be told what to do...

    oooooh, i better abandon emulation then. seems like they are tellin me what to do! liek i said, what are they gonna do? im calling their bluff. correct, i dont like being told what to do, especially when they cant do anything about it. in this situation, i just lose respect for ppl "tellin me what to do". and i dont suggest anyone do something because they are told to do it.... be it job, school whatever.. when you take a job, you arent being "told what to do"!... you have signed an agreemenet , and therefore promise to do a service for due pay... thats an agreement, although you tried to make it look like taking orders is somehow a virtue.

    it is not about money... anyway... but that would be too complicated for you to understand and too long for me to explain...

    listen you sh!t.... i dont need yer lame guesses as to what i can comprehend. if its not about money, which i agree its not.. (for the time being at least) then whats it about???
    you cant come up with an answer so ill speak for you: they dont want certain games playable, and they dont want their nag screens disabled. although i respect their wishes, i find it stupid that they make it so easy for ppl to modify the source and then they use wording like "you are forbidden from doing so" well im calling their bluff. they should kindly ask if they are going to make doing so, so damn easy.

    heres the bottom line" can u understand this smartass? this program is free, this program is open source. this program is all about games... nothing important or lucrative. this program has stepped on the toes on 100's of commercial software developers.. this program is the work of dozens of different individuals...... so where does nicola come off even caring about tim and his meansly little mod of mame? its all a big !@)(ing deal about nothing by ppl that are so protective about their program, that they really shouldnt be making open source if they are gonna worry worry worry all the damn time about the next "tim" to come along. some ppl just cant put sh!t into perspective, but what do ya really expect when this sh!t is their life. as a final note: i like mame, i wouldnt do a thing to harm it or the team behind it.... but i am not gonna just sit here while nicola loses his mind. ya know, if he releases the source like he does he shouldnt be throwing fits because someone actually found the source helpfull and released their own version of mame. hey, i might not like what tim did either if i were nicola, but ya know what? i wouldnt have lame nag screens either. and i wouldnt release my source if i didnt want to see any mods. ..... and i wouldnt take such a bossy role as "the owner of mame" cuz it aint so..... mame is everyones.... many ppl have made mame, not one. it couldnt be this way unless it was free source....... but being that it IS open source, you have to accept the things that go along with that, like mods, and the tims out there. and if you see something you dont like, u cant go making demands, especially when yer bluffin. they should have ignored tim, or modified the source they released, or end source distribution and go back to binary only releases. i swear this whole thing was practically created by mame team.... why ask others who owe you nothing to do this, or stop doing that when you solve the problem yourself? take care of the problem and quit whining about mods nicola. all you have done is focus more attention on mr eckel for not being a "mame supporter" or somehow he doesnt respect these talented programmers. cant i respect them, yet comment oin the games that i know they are playing themselves? cant i also comment out the nag screens? cant i also post this on my web page and share with my internet friends? what a big stinking deal over freeware that has only been succesfull at putting public pressure on tim. lord save tim if he decides to do as he pleases again.... the world of emu -brown -nosers much like yerself will rain hellfire on him. but at least for me, i think they should shut up and change the fukin source... either that or live and let live... its just a fukin arcade game emulator. freeware. open source. stop blindly sucking up to emu author's demands. you dont demand sh!t if you release the source, you ask... nicely. and ya kknow what? all tim needed was someone to ask him nicely... even though nicola should have just been a buig man and ignored such a minor mod. oh, and nicola really should axe those lame nag screens.... ive read enough disclaimers already d/l ing roms. its a shame when you have to put lame ass warnings in yer emu... its like treating the ppl that use yer machine like lamers and babies. that alone makes tim's mame! worthwhile. if nicola is so worried about it being more popular than the official version, maybe he should be more like it.... if he feels these nag screens are necesarry, hes paranoid. that there nag screen dont make mame automatically "legit".... nor does the absence of any make it "illegal" mame is just becomin more and more "anal"... and you are just going along with that. well, i love mame, but i aint afraid to say nicola is "expecting too much from the net citizens, much less tim... and that hes also bringing it on himself with the source releases. and!... im saying he should quietly DO something within his OWN power to fix these thins, instead of making DEMANDS that have no inforcement besides pinpointing ONE guy! tim! its all unfair, and stupid, and i cant believe some one as nicola would be so stupid about the whole thing. BUT, i am definitely not surprised that you had to defend their possition... it makes you feel like you have done something for "the scene"
    truth is, its a biased opinion based on that wonderfull toy they make for you every 2 weeks. i call em as i see them, and nicola makes a public stink about something well under his control to resolve. this is just a smear campain on tim, and its lame, childish, etc.

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Wahs Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - (1:16)
    Subject: Hey, are there Cliff Notes available to the previous post????? (nt)
    From: 85.99.185.207
    >-it seems to me your idea of copyright is somewhat inexistent...
    >
    >laugh. this is coming from a MAME user? lol. none of us respect copyrights if we use mame or any other emu. hipocrit.
    >
    >-I'll tell you a couple things they can_ do:
    >- stop releasing the source
    >- stop releasing MAME
    >
    >i have to laugh again.. if they would end MAME cuz of little Timmy, then they surely are lame. Tim means no harm, "lame" release he compiles or not. MAME team making too big a deal over nothing and if they choose to end MAME, which is the ONLY thing they could do as punishment, i still wouldnt blame Tim for that. anyone who would say "Tim killed MAME" would be a friggin lamer and any intelligent person knows what a copout that would be. so, they cant do sh!t, and sound kinda dumb tellin "Tim" what to do and rewording their textfile because of one man and his harmless mod.
    >
    >- tyred of people (lamers) bothering
    >
    >them... well, gee maybe they should release only binaries to the public, source to trusted individuals... they are asking for ppl to turn games on and whatnot right now.. . then they throw a hissy.
    >
    >-the same as before... how the hell the scene they are in influence their rights?... well, they trounce all over the rights of others to build mame.. and mame encourages rom piracy by all of us, so i think they should realize when they do it, its actually far worse "copyright infringememnt" than tim could ever do. its called being moronic, dillusional, or a hipocrit. i value honesty and fairness over someone's programming skills myself.(besides, mame is a product of mant many ppl, just because nicola thinks its "his" dont mean a lot to me. im sure many mamedev just wanna gtet back to coding and could care less about this petty bullsh!t.) i admit i own many roms which i dont own. i dont think this is unfair bcuz they are old and obsolete and cost no one any revenue loss.
    >
    >-they can release whatever they want (if they wish to release)... in any way they want... and under any licence terms they want... they OWN it... do you see it?... it should be very easy for anyone to understand...
    >
    >understood, and they can also whine and bitch when their source code gets modified and compiled... or they could stop releasing the source(i think they wish they werent open source anymore, yet still have all the team members that would never have contributed had it not been so) understand that?
    >
    >-Tim's release is lame because don't make any real improvement whatsoever...
    >
    >i could care less if its tim's bob's jimmy's or rodimus's.... i only use the standard dos port myself. that wasnt the point. the point is... Tim gets publicly dumped on again by ppl in emulation that are nothing but asskissers to emu programmers... even when they are dillusional like those behind mame that expect everyone to follow their stupid rules. folx, it emulation, its no big deal and i cant believe these ppl have to worry about ppl hacking their source code to play a video game. extremely lame. look the other way, just as the software companies look the other way whwen they see their video games running under mame. hipocrisy at its finest.
    >
    >-> i dont like being told what to do <
    >-yours is a "good" attitude... someone in your position should _not_ get involved in someplace where you may be told what to do...
    >
    >oooooh, i better abandon emulation then. seems like they are tellin me what to do! liek i said, what are they gonna do? im calling their bluff. correct, i dont like being told what to do, especially when they cant do anything about it. in this situation, i just lose respect for ppl "tellin me what to do". and i dont suggest anyone do something because they are told to do it.... be it job, school whatever.. when you take a job, you arent being "told what to do"!... you have signed an agreemenet , and therefore promise to do a service for due pay... thats an agreement, although you tried to make it look like taking orders is somehow a virtue.
    >
    >it is not about money... anyway... but that would be too complicated for you to understand and too long for me to explain...
    >
    >listen you sh!t.... i dont need yer lame guesses as to what i can comprehend. if its not about money, which i agree its not.. (for the time being at least) then whats it about???
    >you cant come up with an answer so ill speak for you: they dont want certain games playable, and they dont want their nag screens disabled. although i respect their wishes, i find it stupid that they make it so easy for ppl to modify the source and then they use wording like "you are forbidden from doing so" well im calling their bluff. they should kindly ask if they are going to make doing so, so damn easy.
    >
    >heres the bottom line" can u understand this smartass? this program is free, this program is open source. this program is all about games... nothing important or lucrative. this program has stepped on the toes on 100's of commercial software developers.. this program is the work of dozens of different individuals...... so where does nicola come off even caring about tim and his meansly little mod of mame? its all a big !@)(ing deal about nothing by ppl that are so protective about their program, that they really shouldnt be making open source if they are gonna worry worry worry all the damn time about the next "tim" to come along. some ppl just cant put sh!t into perspective, but what do ya really expect when this sh!t is their life. as a final note: i like mame, i wouldnt do a thing to harm it or the team behind it.... but i am not gonna just sit here while nicola loses his mind. ya know, if he releases the source like he does he shouldnt be throwing fits because someone actually found the source helpfull and released their own version of mame. hey, i might not like what tim did either if i were nicola, but ya know what? i wouldnt have lame nag screens either. and i wouldnt release my source if i didnt want to see any mods. ..... and i wouldnt take such a bossy role as "the owner of mame" cuz it aint so..... mame is everyones.... many ppl have made mame, not one. it couldnt be this way unless it was free source....... but being that it IS open source, you have to accept the things that go along with that, like mods, and the tims out there. and if you see something you dont like, u cant go making demands, especially when yer bluffin. they should have ignored tim, or modified the source they released, or end source distribution and go back to binary only releases. i swear this whole thing was practically created by mame team.... why ask others who owe you nothing to do this, or stop doing that when you solve the problem yourself? take care of the problem and quit whining about mods nicola. all you have done is focus more attention on mr eckel for not being a "mame supporter" or somehow he doesnt respect these talented programmers. cant i respect them, yet comment oin the games that i know they are playing themselves? cant i also comment out the nag screens? cant i also post this on my web page and share with my internet friends? what a big stinking deal over freeware that has only been succesfull at putting public pressure on tim. lord save tim if he decides to do as he pleases again.... the world of emu -brown -nosers much like yerself will rain hellfire on him. but at least for me, i think they should shut up and change the fukin source... either that or live and let live... its just a fukin arcade game emulator. freeware. open source. stop blindly sucking up to emu author's demands. you dont demand sh!t if you release the source, you ask... nicely. and ya kknow what? all tim needed was someone to ask him nicely... even though nicola should have just been a buig man and ignored such a minor mod. oh, and nicola really should axe those lame nag screens.... ive read enough disclaimers already d/l ing roms. its a shame when you have to put lame ass warnings in yer emu... its like treating the ppl that use yer machine like lamers and babies. that alone makes tim's mame! worthwhile. if nicola is so worried about it being more popular than the official version, maybe he should be more like it.... if he feels these nag screens are necesarry, hes paranoid. that there nag screen dont make mame automatically "legit".... nor does the absence of any make it "illegal" mame is just becomin more and more "anal"... and you are just going along with that. well, i love mame, but i aint afraid to say nicola is "expecting too much from the net citizens, much less tim... and that hes also bringing it on himself with the source releases. and!... im saying he should quietly DO something within his OWN power to fix these thins, instead of making DEMANDS that have no inforcement besides pinpointing ONE guy! tim! its all unfair, and stupid, and i cant believe some one as nicola would be so stupid about the whole thing. BUT, i am definitely not surprised that you had to defend their possition... it makes you feel like you have done something for "the scene"
    >truth is, its a biased opinion based on that wonderfull toy they make for you every 2 weeks. i call em as i see them, and nicola makes a public stink about something well under his control to resolve. this is just a smear campain on tim, and its lame, childish, etc.
    >

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (16:57)
    Subject: Regarding MAME license changes
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Just a couple short thoughts on the license thing, since we're all talking about it... I can see one really good reason why the MAME team put the clause in about not using punctuation (+, !, etc) to distinguish your custom MAME from the official MAME. It's really simple: Because names like MAME!, MAME+, MAME_, etc, can be easily confused with the original MAME. Yeah, this may sound silly, but it's true - the MAME team wants to be able to take full credit for their work, and in legal terms, punctuation does not do enough to set MAME! apart from MAME. (Unlike adding a letter: AMAME vs. MAME.)

    [Post a reply]

     Name: JoseQ Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (22:36)
    Subject: Re: That's right on
    From: 85.99.185.207
    That's pretty much the majority of the reason for the newest license change. Specially with the '!' used by Tim Eckel at Arcade @ Home. Would you know he was referring to his own version of MAME if the news read: "New MAME!", of course, technically he refers to a new >MAME!<, but people will think he means a new MAME >!< and the exclamation point being there to make sure the news go out. That would create confusion as people would think that all his changes are backed up by MAMEDEV while they are really not. And to me, that's a very good reason to change the license, to avoid confusion and mis-representation.

    JoseQ

    >Just a couple short thoughts on the license thing, since we're all talking about it... I can see one really good reason why the MAME team put the clause in about not using punctuation (+, !, etc) to distinguish your custom MAME from the official MAME. It's really simple: Because names like MAME!, MAME+, MAME_, etc, can be easily confused with the original MAME. Yeah, this may sound silly, but it's true - the MAME team wants to be able to take full credit for their work, and in legal terms, punctuation does not do enough to set MAME! apart from MAME. (Unlike adding a letter: AMAME vs. MAME.)
    >

    [Post a reply]

     Name: (-o-) Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (21:13)
    Subject: Re: Regarding MAME license changes
    From: 85.99.185.207
    > the MAME team wants to be able to take full credit for their work, and in legal terms, punctuation does not do enough to set MAME! apart from MAME. (Unlike adding a letter: AMAME vs. MAME.)

    they have to get credit of course!, but another very important reason for doing it so is people bothering them about those other MAMEs... thinking it is the same...

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (21:13)
    Subject: Re: Regarding MAME license changes
    From: 85.99.185.207
    >Just a couple short thoughts on the license thing, since we're all talking about it... I can see one really good reason why the MAME team put the clause in about not using punctuation (+, !, etc) to distinguish your custom MAME from the official MAME. It's really simple: Because names like MAME!, MAME+, MAME_, etc, can be easily confused with the original MAME. Yeah, this may sound silly, but it's true - the MAME team wants to be able to take full credit for their work, and in legal terms, punctuation does not do enough to set MAME! apart from MAME. (Unlike adding a letter: AMAME vs. MAME.)
    >

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Dorsola Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (17:00)
    Subject: Cool! Didn't know I could do that.
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Yep, the graphic above was me. Sorry, JoseQ, I just wanted to see if that was possible. It won't happen again, unless you encourage us to start using our own graphics. :)

    If that sort of thing is going to be a problem, you may want to implement HTML filtering in the messageboard scripts, at least for the Name and Subject fields.

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Dorsola Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (16:50)
    Subject: Hooray for TMS34010 speedups!
    From: 85.99.185.207
    FINALLY! Now I can play Smash TV, Total Carnage, T2 Shooter and some of those other TMS34010 games at full speed! (Or nearly so). That's a hell of an improvement, guys! Good work!

    Though T2 Shooter is still broken - the cutscene that takes you from the future to the present (after defeating Skynet) still hangs after the first of three video clips, though it looks more like a missed interrupt now than the whole machine grinding to a halt, like it used to. The scene with the truck (level 3) is also still broken, though at least that makes it easy to beat the level. :P

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Phil Stroffolino Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - (15:39)
    Subject:
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Thank Aaron Giles, not "MAME Team" - he did all the hard work here.

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Wahs Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (15:26)
    Subject: Cutting off your nose...
    From: 85.99.185.207
    I don't know if anyone realizes this, but most of the features that were intergrated into MAME were created thanks to MAME VERSIONS CREATED OUTSIDE OF MAME ITSELF, such as PMAME, AMAME, and yes, Tim's MAME!

    I don't think the MAME team realizes that they're literally cutting off their nose to spite their face. Also, they really don't have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to stopping anyone from compiling and distributing other versions. Why try to stop progress?

    [Post a reply]

     Name: (-o-) Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (20:33)
    Subject: Re: Cutting off your nose...
    From: 85.99.185.207
    >I don't know if anyone realizes this, but most of the features that were intergrated into MAME were created thanks to MAME VERSIONS CREATED OUTSIDE OF MAME ITSELF, such as PMAME, AMAME, and yes, Tim's MAME!

    do you consider those MAMEs derivativee work?

    come on! don't make us laugh!...

    derivative work means... work... such as EMU+... just by changing (comment/uncomment, enabling/disabling features) some pieces of the code here and there doesn't mean real "work"... it means coding creative work... got it?... for example creating/fixing/optimizing drivers, adding new options... etc.

    >Also, they really don't have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to stopping anyone from compiling and distributing other versions. Why try to stop progress?

    absoluty wrong... as the author of a program they have every single right to do with their code whatever they want to, and licence it under whatever conditions they wish... or not licence it at all...

    one of the reasons because other emu-dev don't release their source is lamers... MAME releases such as Tim's are lame...

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Wahs Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - (23:55)
    Subject: ACTUALLY...
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Actually, YES I can prove that many of the features that are in MAME now come from other versions of other people's MAMES, but I'm too lazy right now to look through Vintage Gaming's news archives to prove it. :()

    >absoluty wrong... as the author of a program they have every single right to do with their code whatever they want to, and licence it under whatever conditions they wish... or not licence it at all...

    Can't you say the same thing about the video games MAME emulates? Funny, many of the games that MAME emulates actually has a copyright saying that you can't reproduce each game in whole or in part, or even play the game outside of Japan. I don't think you can hold a license on something that is public domain and freely distributed, let alone benefiting from other video game companies work.

    >one of the reasons because other emu-dev don't release their source is lamers... MAME releases such as Tim's are lame...

    Well, some people like Pepsi, some people like Coke... etc. You can feel however you want, but just don't deny me the opportunity to play other versions of this great piece of public domain software.

    -wahs

    [Post a reply]

     Name: pjstroff@hotmail.com Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (16:10)
    Subject: Re: Cutting off your nose...
    From: 85.99.185.207
    >I don't know if anyone realizes this, but most of the features that were intergrated into MAME were created thanks to MAME VERSIONS CREATED OUTSIDE OF MAME ITSELF, such as PMAME, AMAME, and yes, Tim's MAME!

    Very funny. Do you even know what these versions of MAME do? PMAME and AMAME are not restricted by MAME's license, since they aren't derivative works, merely alternative compiles. "MAME!" enables and disables certain features that already exist in MAME, against the wishes of developers.

    This isn't an issue of enforcement, but respect. No MAME developer is going to waste their time and money bringing lawyers into this.

    Tim's always followed the letter of the law when it comes to MAME's license, and hopefully he will continue to comply now that Nicola has been more specific.

    Phil

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Jules Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (16:01)
    Subject: Re: Cutting off your nose...
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Most of the features?

    This is a joke right?

    Feel free to expound..

    >I don't know if anyone realizes this, but most of the features that were intergrated into MAME were created thanks to MAME VERSIONS CREATED OUTSIDE OF MAME ITSELF, such as PMAME, AMAME, and yes, Tim's MAME!
    >
    >I don't think the MAME team realizes that they're literally cutting off their nose to spite their face. Also, they really don't have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to stopping anyone from compiling and distributing other versions. Why try to stop progress?
    >

    [Post a reply]

    Name: raindog Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (10:36)
    Subject: new license restrictions
    From: 85.99.185.207
    The only new license restriction that bothers me is the "no skipping the legal notice" one. Typing "OK" every single time you start a game is a real pain in the ass when you play with a joystick, so I comment out those screens and build my own MAME and MAME32 binaries. But I don't distribute my mods so I'm exempt from that clause of the license anyway.

    Of course, the license can't prohibit distribution of binary patches (though they could choose to further weaken the license by saying "you can't use MAME ever again if you apply a patch," I guess.) How long before we see "MAME cracks"? Now that will be hilarious.

    I think those who bellyache a lot about the new licensing terms are looking a gift horse in the mouth. MAME is an extraordinarily well-written piece of software, even most of the betas. Anyone who has trouble with the license restrictions is probably the sort of person who wouldn't bat an eye about infringing licenses in the first place!

    Remember, things could be a lot worse - Marat Fayzullin could have written MAME ;)

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (10:58)
    Subject: Moving the joystick Left then Right is the same as typing OK!
    From: 85.99.185.207

    [Post a reply]

    Name: init Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (2:18)
    Subject: or else?
    From: 85.99.185.207
    personally i think that if you release your source code and expect ppl to "DO as YOU SAY (tm)" yer suffering from delusions of granduer. i thinbk some ppl are just bored.... if they are so opposed to tim's mame then change the god damn source guys. and who is he hurting? im not gonna jump on tim's back for making his own compile available to other fans. so mame team dont like it, well they asked for it. change the source. and you say that mame team "forbids" ? well, what the hell can do, and why would they? they are responsible for many copyright infringements themselves..... have effectively made any commercial emus of popular titles such as pacman, etc obsolete. they augtta be refreshed as to what scene they are in, and that what goes around comes around. i like mame and all, but i would be quiet about "derivative works" lest they bring attention to their own participation in such things. and what a moral dillemma for ppl like tim.... pressure from the guys who make mame do not do this or that, yet they leave all the game info in the source code.. qwhat gives? if its in their, compile it anyway you want. if yer gonna make it so easy, i cant really fault guys for making their own custom mame's and disregarding the naive mame team's "rules" this is emulation: their aint no stinking rules. what if sardu came nbback and got all pissy over the cps1 patch team? lol, sure he would. would that be progress? and why does mame care what games are compiled in it or not? thwere all illegal to play anyway if u dont own the original...... and would be legal if i did.... so why do they really care? like i said, they release sourses these days, not binaries.... they got a problem with that, they should just fix the source and be quiet, cuz making demands is just gonna get ppl like tim some serious disrespect from lamers all in the scene when he "DOESNT DO WHAT THEY SAID" (TM). im like tim, i dont like being told what to do. relax mame team... you emulate a lot, but you arent about to lose money or anything over unofficial builds, so why all the fuss?

    [Post a reply]

     Name: (-o-) Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (21:52)
    Subject: Re: or else?
    From: 85.99.185.207
    let's try to clarify some of your thoughts...

    >personally i think that if you release your source code and expect ppl to "DO as YOU SAY (tm)"

    ok... it's what _you_ think... and _it_ doesn't have to be like that for real...

    > if they are so opposed to tim's mame then change the god damn source guys. and who is he hurting?

    some of you guys should _understand_ MAME is a work in progress (despite of betas and releases), and there are parts of the code incompleted, disabled etc, for whatever reasons (such as neogeo roms too recent)... etc... thus, removing (changing) things like that would mean extra work... need I say more?...

    >im not gonna jump on tim's back for making his own compile available to other fans. so mame team dont like it, well they asked for it. change the source.

    Tim's release is lame... and by no means it's a derivative work...

    > and you say that mame team "forbids" ? well, what the hell can do, and why would they?

    I'll tell you a couple things they _can_ do:
    - stop releasing the source
    - stop releasing MAME

    why?
    - people don't complying the licence terms
    - tyred of people (lamers) bothering them...
    - (...)

    > they are responsible for many copyright infringements themselves...

    if they have or not is _irrelevant_... they have their own rights anyhow...

    > they augtta be refreshed as to what scene they are in, and that what goes around comes around.

    the same as before... how the hell the scene they are in influence their rights?...

    it seems to me your idea of copyright is somewhat inexistent...

    > they release sourses these days, not binaries.... they got a problem with that, they should just fix the source and be quiet,

    they can release whatever they want (if they wish to release)... in any way they want... and under any licence terms they want... they OWN it... do you see it?... it should be very easy for anyone to understand...

    > tim some serious disrespect from lamers all in

    Tim's release is lame because don't make any real improvement whatsoever...

    > i dont like being told what to do

    yours is a "good" attitude... someone in your position should _not_ get involved in someplace where you may be told what to do...

    > you arent about to lose money or anything over unofficial builds, so why all the fuss?

    it is not about money... anyway... but that would be too complicated for you to understand and too long for me to explain...

    [Post a reply]

    Name: RetroLover Posted: Sunday, November 14, 1999 - (18:20)
    Subject:
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Seems as if M.A.M.E. v0.36b9.1b has been released due to Tim Eckel's unofficial version of MAME! of which Nicola wasn't pleased! Derivative MAME's like AMAME/PMAME and others might die now! Nevertheless I suppose Tim still will release derivative versions! Do you all remember the trouble between Tim and a MAMEDEV-member because of MAMEX (containing MetalSlugX in the binary), which came ahead not so long ago? Personally, I like Tim's webpage but he might have provoked too much!

    Bye
    RetroLover

    [Post a reply]

     Name: JoseQ Posted: Sunday, November 14, 1999 - (22:35)
    Subject: Re: PMAME and AMAME can continue.
    From: 85.99.185.207
    The new license does not forbig AMAME, PMAME from staying alive. The changes do forbid releasing a different MAME compile by labeling with a special character such as '!' like Tim did. So MAME! cannot continue. The other clause which would make TIM's version of MAME not continue as TIMMAME or something, is that trivial changes like enabling disabled games, and such and such (as explained in the license) are not considered derivative works thus are not allowed.

    The final line says it all though, if the current MAME coordinator asks you to stop, you must comply.

    JoseQ

    >Seems as if M.A.M.E. v0.36b9.1b has been released due to Tim Eckel's unofficial version of MAME! of which Nicola wasn't pleased! Derivative MAME's like AMAME/PMAME and others might die now! Nevertheless I suppose Tim still will release derivative versions! Do you all remember the trouble between Tim and a MAMEDEV-member because of MAMEX (containing MetalSlugX in the binary), which came ahead not so long ago? Personally, I like Tim's webpage but he might have provoked too much!
    >
    >Bye
    >RetroLover
    >
    >

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Rambo Posted: Sunday, November 14, 1999 - (16:15)
    Subject: Mame36b10
    From: 85.99.185.207

    I Can,t wait for Mame36 Beta 10 !!!

    Thanks ! JoseQ

    Grüsse aus Swiss ( CH - Europa )

    Vielen Dank !

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Steve Merritt Posted: Sunday, November 14, 1999 - (16:09)
    Subject: 'Soccer' games
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Oi, Jose, don't go dissing the beautiful game. It is the most popular sport on this planet. Oh, the sport is also called FOOTBALL, not 'soccer', which is merely an abreviation of Association Football.

    [Post a reply]

     Name: JoseQ Posted: Sunday, November 14, 1999 - (16:41)
    Subject: Re: 'Soccer' games
    From: 85.99.185.207
    I wasn't dissing Soccer, I was just saying that a great number of them were Soccer games. As a matter of fact, I love the sport. I just played in a league this year for the first time in my life. We ended the season 0-10, but I loved playing. :)

    JoseQ

    >Oi, Jose, don't go dissing the beautiful game. It is the most popular sport on this planet. Oh, the sport is also called FOOTBALL, not 'soccer', which is merely an abreviation of Association Football.
    >

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Steve Merritt Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (4:13)
    Subject: Re: Re: 'Soccer' games
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Sorry Jose Mate, the light-hearted nature of my message was lost on this medium!

    [Post a reply]

    Name: mlenardon Posted: Sunday, November 14, 1999 - (9:17)
    Subject: Dragon's Lair emulation
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Dragon's Lair is emulated by DL Term and Lasermax 2.0. Also space ace is also emulated. You need an original player or a sony 1450, original discs and rom images. Works great. Having original games I don't need to use an emulator but digital conversions are underway to emulate laser disc from what I understand also.

    Michael

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Raphael Posted: Saturday, November 13, 1999 - (23:32)
    Subject: Dragon's Lair??
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Not very likely. Without the LD, you could emulate it easily, but all you'd get are the yellow blips that indicate where to move the joystick next. Lame. But wouldn't it be nice if it could be done...

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Wahs Posted: Saturday, November 13, 1999 - (22:22)
    Subject: ?!?!?!
    From: 85.99.185.207
    Whaddya mean!?!? D'ya know how many games are LEFT to be emulated. Let's see, off th' top o' my head:
    Pole Position
    Pole Position II
    Pong (ok ok...I've seen the Emuviews article on it awhiles back, but there's gotta be a way to emulate it).
    Dragon's Lair (there's gotta be a way...)
    NBA Jam versions 97-present
    Nintendo VS. games (such as super mario, duck hunt, GOONIES (remember that?))
    Super Punch Out (its been a year since they've partially emulated that).

    There's still a lot left...don't think Mame is going to end anytime soon. I look very forward to the next 10 years of MAME emulation excitement....

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Lando242 Posted: Sunday, November 14, 1999 - (4:50)
    Subject: Re: ?!?!?!
    From: 85.99.185.207

    >Super Punch Out (its been a year since they've partially emulated that).

    It is fully emulated, there just missing the samples (same with arm wrestling). Rename your punchout samples to match the super punch out dir. name and it will play, many of them will be miss matched but it will play. Sounds better then nothing to me.

    Lando242

    [Post a reply]

     Name: phil Posted: Sunday, November 14, 1999 - (1:14)
    Subject: Re: ?!?!?!
    From: 85.99.185.207
    >Super Punch Out (its been a year since they've partially emulated that).

    "Partially emulated"???
    It's been working perfectly for some time, now.

    [Post a reply]

    Name: Mame guy Posted: Saturday, November 13, 1999 - (21:33)
    Subject: hehe don't recognize any of these game
    From: 85.99.185.207
    running out of game to be emulated?
    good one's :P

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Kurgan Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (1:54)
    Subject: These need to be emulated...
    From: 85.99.185.207
    >running out of game to be emulated?
    >good one's :P
    >

    Some games I'd LOVE to see emulated are Twin Eagle (Taito?), and Mechanized Attack (SNK).

    Not to mention Primal Rage (Atari).

    Also, how about crackin' those Mortal Kombat II and NBA JAM roms and getting those working (and any bootlegs or hacks of the MK series)? ; )

    Hope to see those someday... that would make my collection of classic games from my youth complete. ; )

    Yeah, because of the lack of roms, looks like Computer Space, Pong, and DeathRace won't be seeing emulation.. but we always have clones and simulations of 'em.

    Kurgan

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Posted: Monday, November 15, 1999 - (17:49)
    Subject: Re: These need to be emulated...
    From: 85.99.185.207
    I'd like to see Thunderblade, Afterburner, G-Loc, Powerdrift, Rad Mobile Turbo Outrun etc ... and some bizzare game called Star Racer (Or something like that, which was around in 1984).

    Prehaps MAME could also emulate a change machine/booth just to recreate the excitement I used to feel at the seaside knowing I had a handful of 10 pence pieces and a whole arcade full of video games to play!!! ;)

    [Post a reply]

     Name: Wahs Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - (18:04)
    Subject: Re: Re: These need to be emulated...
    From: 85.99.185.207
    AFTERBURNER!!!!!!! *DROOOOOOL* See, there are plenty of games left out there!

    >Prehaps MAME could also emulate a change machine/booth just to recreate the excitement I used to feel at the seaside knowing I had a handful of 10 pence pieces and a whole arcade full of video games to play!!! ;)

    There is a video game system that does exactly that, but it hasn't been updated in a very long time. "Vector Dream" - you could find it on the vintagegames.com web site. Even w/o an update for about 2 years, its still an amazing program.

    [Post a reply]

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