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New Poll @ The Views - December 22,1999 by JoseQ
Believe it or not, I have added a new question at The Views. The new poll refers to recent talk about theidea of merging emulators into MAME, and external developersjoining forces with MAME to once grouped, be able to fullyemulate partially working games. Do you think that MAMEshould be the only game in town? Post your opinion. Also,if you hadn't noticed, The Views' questions are poppingup continuously on top of the main EmuViews page, so theresults are also changing all the time. You might want tore-visit older polls every now and then. Post your comments!

One Article Up: More Signs of Life! Nemu speaks!
One Article Down: You can still sign-up!

Add Your Comments

Name: Marc Posted: Saturday, December 25, 1999 - (16:47)
Subject: ps
From:
Raine and Hive don't play (natively) on Macs, Linux, BEos, DIGITA (!), Amiga, OS/2... (and Retrocade only a few).

Having a PC, I was quite shocked when I saw the raves on the MacMame BBS when I, Robot was emulated! Or NeoGeo...

[Post a reply]

Name: Marc Posted: Saturday, December 25, 1999 - (16:42)
Subject: Mame/Raine
From:
I can understand 50% of the people in emu-land would not like Raine to be gobbled by Mame.

I myself -do- like it, because I only have one program to care about (okay, 2: MAME and MAME32 :-), which all use one consistent (G)UI. Also the videosettings of MAME are perfect (I never seem to get Raine working okay with scanlines, it runs off my screen).

Then again, my PC has sufficient power (P2, 350) to run the majority of MAME games.

I suggest not killing Raine and other emu's: they surve a purpose: those who like fast gaming.

Yet I would like to see the hardware emulation of various Raine (etc) systems to be incorporated into MAME. Sooner or later (Gradius III!) a MameDEV would figure it out, so why not make live a little easier on these guys? As written below, the Cinematronics drivers were made with shared info from the Retrocade team.
The Mame team has a lot of DEV's who can tweak a driver to 'get it better working', and has an incredible array of CPU's emulated (e.g. sound chips), so most newly added drivers will have 'instant' sound.

So in brief: keep the speedy individual drivers, but give Mame some insight into the hardware info, to make Mame more complete.
As a nice side effect: games will share a consistent GUI, and Mame properties (video/audio/input) work thoughout.

Marc

[Post a reply]

Name: squirrel Posted: Thursday, December 23, 1999 - (5:20)
Subject: mama mamea
From:
No.. mame is cool, but it is too slow/not optimised...
the cool thing about emus like neorage-x, raine, callus, shark and sparcade is that they run well on relatively low-spec machines, and if you happen to have a higher spec machine you can acces various frills such as neoragex's 50% scan lines mode. With mame you need a hi-end machine just to get sound.. plus most of the cool games often seem to be 'work in progress' whereas the other emus appear to be more complete....
sooo... keep them separate i say. if anyone cares - sob!

[Post a reply]

Name: Chris Posted: Thursday, December 23, 1999 - (5:14)
Subject: MAME is awful now
From:
MAME, clever as it is, is beginning to suck. The team seem to be trying to add new drivers and not optimising the current ones! Look at HiVE, that is one cool emu (shame that it is going commercial!) but the drivers are lightning fast and it emulates the games brilliantly. You can tell Larry has spent plenty of time optimising the code. If MAME wants to be the best, they should stop worrying about adding games, and get that code tight!

Chris

[Post a reply]

Name: JoseQ Posted: Thursday, December 23, 1999 - (9:20)
Subject: Re: MAME is awful now
From:
The problem is one of perception and understanding. MAME is not out to be the best emulator by your definition. They're out to emulate every game there was, just to document the types of hardware found and what it was able to do. Believe me when I tell you this, if it were up to some of the MAME Developers, MAME would be a private project and would never see the public light. They're not out to defeat other emus, or to do anything better than them, the sole goal of MAME is to document and emulate. Speed is secondary. Correctness is primary. Obviously, once the game is up and running, there is little or no motivation for the author to keep working on it, even if it has some minor flaws. Just be patient, and they will be fixed.

JoseQ

>MAME, clever as it is, is beginning to suck. The team seem to be trying to add new drivers and not optimising the current ones! Look at HiVE, that is one cool emu (shame that it is going commercial!) but the drivers are lightning fast and it emulates the games brilliantly. You can tell Larry has spent plenty of time optimising the code. If MAME wants to be the best, they should stop worrying about adding games, and get that code tight!

>

>Chris

>

[Post a reply]

Name: Neil Bradley Posted: Thursday, December 23, 1999 - (4:30)
Subject: All I can say...
From:
Is that Retrocade is actively being worked on by 2-3 people right now, and I'm gearing up for a release very soon now. Hopefully Jose will post about it in the rumor mill. ;-)

Retrocade took a haiatus during the summer when I ported it to Windows CE (about a 4 month venture). The graphics system got an overhaul which broke everything. Now it's up and working again with a few minor problems to fix. Once that occurs, you'll get a beta.

As far as Retrocade being merged into MAME, it will never happen because the architectures are completely incompatible with eachother. Retrocade's goals are totally different than MAME's as well. However, we've shared info with the MAME guys openly (you're playing Cinematronics games in MAME because the Retrocade team donated the CCPU core and other info).

In any case, I like working on it. I have fun pushing myself to make things run more efficiently and keeping up my programming chops. If a few people enjoy it along with me, that's great, too. ;-)

-->Neil

[Post a reply]

Name: Stanimal Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (20:12)
Subject:
From:
No.....No.......NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Post a reply]

Name: Josť M. Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (18:46)
Subject: The Universal Emulator
From:
...A Nightmare Come True!
I really think the MAME team is a very strong coalition of people that does the job. It is somehow easier when a single author manages to produce an emulator, even with someone else's libraries. But, to manage a wide group to produce so many drivers release after release is an exploit. Nevertheless it's important to preserve the difference, it's the only way to make sure there is progress and evolution. I got sad learning the news of the end of System 16 development and still convinced too much spotlights over one group can kill the competition. If somebody else's emulator isn't as good as MAME, that doesn't mean it can't reach that goal, just give it time and support. At the moment the return of HiVE and Retrocade can rock emulation, and Raine is quite healthy too...

[Post a reply]

Name: anticupid Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (16:47)
Subject: What the scene really needs...
From:
I think the idea of Mame is really a good one, to document as much hardware and software as possible to perserve them. What the scene could really use now is for a parallel project to Mame, one that is started from scratch that has the main goal of being playable. It seemed at one point that Retrocade would be this parallel project however the closed nature of the project, along with the limited time of the people working on it have all but killed it off.

Ideally, the parallel project would be open source and portable, but not at the sake of speed and playability. It might not be easy to accomplish this but if Linux can be ported to different processors there is no reason this project couldn't work. The project should also include a GUI and a rom manager. Something easy to use that runs fast on different platforms.

Oh well maybe someday my dream will come true, until then I will just avoid trying to do anything with Mame.

ac.

[Post a reply]

Name: BMan2 Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (18:43)
Subject: Re: What the scene really needs...
From:
>Oh well maybe someday my dream will come true, until then I will just avoid trying to do anything with Mame.

Why oh why? MAME has gotta be one of the more impressive pieces of software around. Sure - it may not run on a P233 - but - go to the store and buy Rally 2000 - it says it wants a P3 500!

I think the idea of having multiple emulators is a good idea as it lets people choose which one suits them - I personally only use MAME because it runs fine for me. Maybe though - there could be a sharing of information between emulators so that there is a choice.

[Post a reply]

Name: Roj Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (14:35)
Subject: ...
From:
Lets face it, the only emulator that would be interesting in combining with Mame is Raine!

[Post a reply]

Name: Alyas Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (17:28)
Subject: This would make my day...
From:
I'd really like to see all the Raine games added to Mame. The sooner Raine moves away from clunky old DOS and over to Win9x, the better.

Of course, if those stories about a Win9x version of Raine ever came true, then I suppose this would be just as good.

[Post a reply]

Name: anticupid Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (16:35)
Subject: Raine and Mame - HECK NO
From:
>Lets face it, the only emulator that would be
>interesting in combining with Mame is Raine!

I am very found of Raine and don't see any reason for it and Mame to be combined. Yes I am aware that they are some sadasists out there with 705mHz systems that have them severly overclocked so that they might actually have a system fast enough to be able to play games in Mame but for popst people the requirements of Mame seem to be on a faster increasing curve than the capabilities of the processor they run on.

Matter of fact I think if there is only going to be one game left in town it should be Raine. The reason I say that is the Raine team seems to spend more time working on drivers so they get the emulation perfect and they also take the time to try and optimize things a bit so that the games are playable.

Well Mame serves its purpose of "documenting" hardware and games it has also grown aware from the "side-effect" of being able to play games.

ac.

[Post a reply]

Name: Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (18:49)
Subject: Re: Raine and Mame - HECK NO
From:
>I am very found of Raine and don't see any reason for it and Mame to be combined. Yes I am aware that they are some sadasists out there with 705mHz systems that have them severly overclocked so that they might actually have a system fast enough to be able to play games in Mame but for popst people the requirements of Mame seem to be on a faster increasing curve than the capabilities of the processor they run on.

Oh the exaggerations .... MAME has improved leaps and bounds in the last year as far as it speed .. and with the exception of a few newly added Namco Sys 2 games - ALL of MAME's games run 100% with full stereo sound on my PII 400 - and that's NOT such an updated computer these days is it?


[Post a reply]

Name: Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (13:35)
Subject:
From:
As the MAME developers keep trying to say,
ease of use and speed are secondary considerations
to having something that is portable and is
available in source form.

When an emulator is distributed as a work in
progress with the source visible to all, it's
tough to hide drivers 'not ready for prime time'



[Post a reply]

Name: Hattori Hanzo Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (13:05)
Subject: Hmmm.....no
From:
It seems like a cool idea, but MAME is
already overloaded with drivers. There are
so many bugs because of this, many games
from just the previous version don't
work correctly. Personally I'm in favor
of MAME splitting up into several emulators.
Maybe one for each type of driver? It seems
that would make the task of opimisation
much simpler. As it stands MAME doesn't
have room for much more......does it?

[Post a reply]

Name: Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (13:38)
Subject: Re: Hmmm.....no
From:
Personally I'm in favor

>of MAME splitting up into several emulators.

>Maybe one for each type of driver? It seems

>that would make the task of opimisation

>much simpler.

And it would make the task of maintaining
a common source base of portable core
routines impossible.


[Post a reply]

Name: Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (16:39)
Subject: Re: Re: Hmmm.....no
From:
Splitting up Mame into emulators for the seperate systems doesn't have to take aware from the shared source. When you build a program you could have it include the parts of source it uses instead of including everything. I think a lot would be gained from having "build blocks" such as CPU cores, sound processors, etc. and then having them assemebled into their own emulators from there instead of all the other code shraing that is going on since I would suspect that is where a lot of the optimization problems are.

ac.

[Post a reply]

Name: GBMan Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (12:37)
Subject: all emuscene merged in MAME?
From:
All emuscene merged in MAME?

It sounds good but I think that it won't be positive for us. MAME isn't friendly to use (has no GUI) and is SLOW compared with other arcade emulators like Sparcade, Retrocade or Hive... These two types of arcade emulators must be alive.

[Post a reply]

Name: GordonJ Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (11:37)
Subject: merging into mame
From:
If you are trying to get a game to work then you may as well use mame, it is by far the best tool to do the job, but emulators like retrocade and hive are pushing in a different direction, they are not trying to make game work that are not in MAME they are try to get good speed and a good gui, which is not the purpose for mame, so there is space for both.

[Post a reply]

Name: alex Posted: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - (11:08)
Subject: my 2 quid :)
From:
really competition (if anyone is really in competition with each other - as it seems pretty friendly to me :) is a great thing.

i love mame. but at the same time - the poor thing is already bursting at the seams :)

making partially emulated games work is not a piece of cake - esp. if you dont have the dev. info on the particular hardware. u can have 10 ppl. working on a game - but no information is still no information :)

[Post a reply]

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