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Dead or Alive: A Story of Raine... - March 03,2000 by JoseQ
In the aftermath following the originally 'aparent' death of Raine therehave been a good number of rumors ranging from it beingresting (those pics posted here), to another release occurring (posted elsewhere). And as sad as it may sound,and as much as we don't want to believe it, everything comes around to this: Raine is Dead and please do not post rumours that it is not. That's the official word from the Raine home page, anything else you may have read in anyother place is just that, something else, and of course, unofficial. While it may have been based on comments from good sources, it is still rumor based, and unofficial.
I'll try to explain... The other night Richard Bush, Raine's author, mentioned on the Beta list, that after the 0.28f release, some work had been done by some of the developers. And as vague as that may sound, that's pretty much what was said, other than that a final beta might have to be done. There was no mention about it being public, any new games being added, games being fixed, or partially working stuff being taken out (even though that's what some of us hope we could see).
So as you can see, the comments made on some sites had some kind of basis for existence, however, the message was slightly bent and played with, even if done unconsiously. The same happened with the pics posted here. While it seemed that Richard was still uncertain on the future of Raine then, he changed his mind sometime after that. Can you blame him? I don't think so. Anybody that has never changed his mind ever in life... you can throw the first flame.
Bottomline: Raine is still dead. Even though we all love it, chances of another release happening publically are very slim. Being a programmer, I'm sure it's not easyto give up on such a project, but while work might continue,I can understand giving up on any public releases. Let's face it, there's really not a lot of motivation for that. While we all appreciate each of the emus out there, very few of us ever say thanks, and lot of us come up with very annoying questions that really make an author think twice about releasing his work. Mentions of authors just doing itfor praise, fame or fortune, trust me, it's very rarely the case. I know Richard, and I know that's not the case.
I hope that eventually we all come to realize that working on emulators is not a very rewarding job, but it is still very much a job. Sometimes I have to wonder why they do it (not to mention how). Try thinking that, and puttingyourself in their shoes. You may understand then the kind of passion and dedication you must possess to be any one of them. You may also find yourself re-thinking what you thought about Richard Bush stopping Raine's development. We might not like it, but it's solely his decision.

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Add Your Comments

Name: Antonio Posted: Monday, March 6, 2000 - (5:44)
Subject: THANK YOU EMU CODERS!
From:
This is only to say THANK YOU emu coders!
Your job is great and we all enjoy it.

[Post a reply]

Name: Verdict Posted: Sunday, March 5, 2000 - (14:25)
Subject: thats life
From:
I recalled some time ago about another Emu "Neorage" being the one and only best emu for Neogeo. Then comes Mame being the monster eating emu, that walks all over others hard work, and getting all the praise as being best emu in the world. I can see that Mame is on the right track preserving whats old and keeping arcade games alive, and those emus that not currently being worked on like "Callus, System 16,and so-on,but adding other authors hard work by ripping off current Emus being worked on such as Raine.
Think #1 reason why authors have a right to protect what they worked on, after all they ones who spent over 100's of hours on it,and only seeing their work being ripped off, and discourage some from working on it. Ps: Mame needs to work on all those buggy games thats piling up, then working on games that already emulated by other authors. After all this is life and it dont make sence merging Pepsi with coke to make less compititon. It's after all a game and what's a game without any compitition and challenge!

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Name: Ryechew Posted: Sunday, March 5, 2000 - (16:59)
Subject: Re: thats life
From:
>I recalled some time ago about another Emu "Neorage" being the one and only best emu for Neogeo.
It still exists, as NeoRageX
It features 'perfect' emulation of almost every game.
Thank you NeoRage team for eating many a gaming hour! :)

[Post a reply]

Name: Alan Posted: Sunday, March 5, 2000 - (8:39)
Subject: Richard is greedy
From:
I'm sorry but i don't agree with a lot of posts there.
It's only a greedy attitude to keep the source hiden.
I know that there is a final version wich fixes a lot of bug.
Why it is not public ?
Why everything should be rebuild from zero for the mame team ?
I think that Raine will not diseaper if the source is revealed.
Richard, dont be so greedy, give us the source and our last release.
Raine should not ended by this way.
It's absurde.

Nevertheless, Thank you again for everythings....
A french lover of Raine

[Post a reply]

Name: raindog Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (11:57)
Subject: Yet another closed-source emulator dies
From:
And now I guess it's official.

Sure it was nice of the Raine guys to release as much as they did of their project, but ending the project while not releasing the source pretty much cancels out any goodwill due them. You can't preserve what you can't update, and if emulators aren't about preservation, what exactly are they about?

As I said in another thread though, I don't really play too many post-crash games so it doesn't matter much to me. Still, now we'll never see a win32, linux or mac port, and now in a couple of years you'll be hard-pressed to find a machine that Raine will work on at all, aside from the three remaining DOS die hards on the planet. That's some legacy.

Disagree all you want, but releasing closed source emulators is good for no one except the rom pirates who just want to play "gamez". If the Raine situation (and Nesticle and UltraHLE and others before it) doesn't prove it to you, maybe you should look at what you're using emulation for in the first place.

[Post a reply]

Name: JoseQ Posted: Sunday, March 5, 2000 - (0:14)
Subject: Re: Yet another closed-source emulator dies
From:
>Disagree all you want, but releasing closed source emulators is good for no one except the rom pirates who just want to play "gamez". If the Raine situation (and Nesticle and UltraHLE and others before it) doesn't prove it to you, maybe you should look at what you're using emulation for in the first place.
>

Sounds logical... If I release the source, then not only will those "rom pirates who just want to play 'gamez'" enjoy it, but also those who would create DRaine, XRaine, Raine!, TRaine, ++Raine, QRaine and Raine--. So sad we're missing all those.

Anyhow, that was a joke, I understand your point, but the benefits of releasing the source in having added developers work on it may not be what everyone has in mind for their work, specially if it means adopting a HUGE amounf work like Nicola has to do for MAME and the tens of active DEVs. So instead of thousands of "rom pirates" there would be thousands of "rom pirates" plus 1 to 5 devs. Would it be worth it in exchange for forever loosing the ability to have Raine be a commercial product should the opportunity arise? There are pros and cons to any of the two ways, and it all depends on who has to make the decision, and the future of a project. I for one don't like releasing my source for many different reasons, including that I'm afraid people might call me Chef Boy'R'Dee after they see my code (I hope you got that joke).

In the ideal world, open source is the way to go, but last time I looked, the world wasn't ideal.

JoseQ

[Post a reply]

Name: Karl H. Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (12:19)
Subject: Thank you to all emu authors!
From:
I'd like to join the crowd and use this opportunity to thank both Richard, Nicola and the MAME team, the NeoRageX team and all the other emu authors out the for using their precious free time for making emulators, and then being so kind as to release their creations publicly.

Also, I'd like to thank the unsung heros of emulation, namely the people who created the ORIGINAL GAMES. They probably get very little benefit from their creations many years afterwards, but without them the games wouldn't be there at all.

It's still a bit magical, I think to see the authentic games of yore running on my PC, and I am still very impressed of what emulation has managed to achieve. Even though I own quite a few arcade boards, I still use more time at my PC than with my arcade cabinet...
(Perhaps because of Deca 2000)

PS. What about you, Jose Q, are you going to appear in the Deca2000 standings soon, you are still listed without any scores?

[Post a reply]

Name: JoseQ Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (12:58)
Subject: Re: Thank you to all emu authors!
From:
>PS. What about you, Jose Q, are you going to appear in the Deca2000 standings soon, you are still listed without any scores?

I will eventually... still working on my scores... I guess I like sending them in batch mode after I've trained a little... Sometimes I feel a little discouraged when seeing some of the scores there... but oh well... It's still early and Mr. Miagi is helping me... =)

JoseQ

[Post a reply]

Name: Karl H. Posted: Sunday, March 5, 2000 - (7:41)
Subject: Re: Thank you to all emu authors!
From:
Good luck with your playing!

It will be interesting to see what the final top scores will be. Already many have exceeded the previous MAME Twin Galaxies top scores handsomely. I'm very impressed by how good people are.

--------
Karl H.

[Post a reply]

Name: Fsgod Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (11:40)
Subject: Powerful Response
From:
I usually do not write about how great an emulator is but would like to say, If I ever reformatted my computer the first emulator (or game) to be put back n immediately was Raine. Considering the choices out there, that says ALOT!

Thanks for the FUN!

[Post a reply]

Name: lensman Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (10:42)
Subject: how about making it shareware???
From:
might be a good idea,poor guy gets sod all for all his hard work...jeez im a skint student and id give 5 for raine anyday!!!!

[Post a reply]

Name: Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (11:00)
Subject: Re: how about making it shareware???
From:
>might be a good idea,poor guy gets sod all for all his hard work...jeez im a skint student and id give 5 for raine anyday!!!!
>

[Post a reply]

Name: }oZoNe{ Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (7:57)
Subject: Good Luck
From:
To Richard & The Raine Team, Thanks for the fun you have provided us with your hard work and effort. Good luck with all future endeavors whatever they may be. You guys have surely earned it!!!!!! NUFF SAID ;)

[Post a reply]

Name: Leigh Ashton evil_g Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (5:36)
Subject: raine
From:
i am thinking of taking over the development of the raine emulator as i think it has a promising future in the hands of a good programmer like myself, i believe with a bit of hard work i could make it better than that shag pile mame.

[Post a reply]

Name: Phydeaux Brigands Posted: Friday, March 3, 2000 - (21:20)
Subject: Thank you!
From:
I enjoyed your work.
Thank you!

[Post a reply]

Name: MANUEL Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (1:32)
Subject: Re: Thank you!
From:
>I enjoyed your work.
>Thank you!
>

[Post a reply]

Name: Andy Posted: Friday, March 3, 2000 - (20:25)
Subject: Jose U are so right!!!
From:
I am an Arcade junkie from years passed and I only recently came across Emulation. I can not believe anyone would complain about anything. The Emulators are great and the games are something I enjoy playing and hearing again. I would like to thank all the Emulator programers. Also a big hand of thanks to all the people like yourself. Emuviews is an Awesome web site.

I agree RAINE will be missed but it is his decision but hey RAINE thanks for everything you have done. Raine is truly a masterpiece.

[Post a reply]

Name: ANdrew Gow Posted: Friday, March 3, 2000 - (19:51)
Subject: RAINE development may be dead.. but it'll live forever in what we have now!
From:
I Agree wholeheartedly with what has been said up till now (in this messageboard)... and it's true that we have come to expect too much from emu authors and not given enuf back. But at this time I'd like to add that the whole RAINE IS DEAD thing is a little misleading....

Sure we don't have sound in the F3 games and we don't have some of those near complete games working properly (heck we can't even get to some of the roms)... but none of these things stop the amount of joy we have had with RAINE up until now...

Am I wrong... Am I the only one who would play Pop 'n Pop and ebjoy every minute of it without even noticing there was sound lacking but appreciatting all that WAS there! Have I been the only one to play Puzzle Bobble 4 and say wow this is so cool... I'm so glad I got the chance to actually do this much...

Sure I might have bad taste in games but the fact is without RAINE's current progress we would have had no chance of even seeing what we have seen...

RAINE ISN'T DEAD (sorry to contradict you Richard) It's living FOREVER as v28f

and I think thats GREAT!!!

ANdrew

P.S. Richards decision is his alone.. In some ways I'd like to see the release never go public... Richard deserves to have his project completed.. yet not scruinised by us!

[Post a reply]

Name: Crisis Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (15:14)
Subject: Re: RAINE IS Not DEAD
From:
I agree Just like Nesticle and System 16 and not very many other emulators RAINE is something people will enjoy for a long time to come ,what it does it does well people are happy and either reliving the past or seeing things that would be gone to all for the first time.

yea and often with quiet a few Emulators Im often oblivious to any sound imperfections. And other minor glitches just happy to live in the past.


[Post a reply]

Name: IceMan Posted: Friday, March 3, 2000 - (18:51)
Subject: So long and thanks for all the Raine
From:
Cheers to the whole Raine team (whatever their contribution). I must say that I was fairly astonished that they released the 0.28f version so we could at least see the progress in SCI, etc.

Personally I reckon MAME should add near-complete drivers like Raine 0.28f (but that's a personal thought).

I have noticed that unlike System16 the Raine source code hasn't been released. I guess this is because either the author reckons it's too difficult to amend, or that he may continue with the project at some time (maybe years down the line)?

Anyway cheers to Richard Bush and the rest of the Raine guys for making such a professional emulator. If only MAME had the front end refinement of Raine (and working V-Sync / Tripple-buffer on my Voodoo3)...

Anyway cheers again,

IceMan

[Post a reply]

Name: Escapist Posted: Friday, March 3, 2000 - (17:23)
Subject: Precipatation...
From:
Jose, you hit it right on the nose-y!

And thanks Rich, for taking time out for the gamers...

[Post a reply]

Name: A.B. Posted: Friday, March 3, 2000 - (16:10)
Subject: thanks for Raine & other emus
From:
I always thought greatly about emulator authors. It's unbelievable how they set aside time when they have so much to do and make these things. What's more, they could be selfish and keep it to themselves, but they don't. I just want to say thanks to all those authors out there. Thanks for Raine, for MAME, Systems 16 & 32 (author is working on it now) and all the others. I never had money as a kid to play arcade games and thanks to those authors I have a chance to catch up now. Continue with the good work!!!

[Post a reply]

Name: SS Posted: Friday, March 3, 2000 - (12:38)
Subject: Amen to that, JoseQ!
From:
I have to agree 100% with your views on the subject, Jose. Sure, I would personally like to see RAINE continue but I fully support Richard's decision to quit. It's his baby and I thank him greatly for what he has given me to enjoy while asking for nothing in return. I only wish that I had thought to getting around to saying "Thanks" BEFORE it was all over. I feel exactly the same about the recient complaints that MAME has recieved. Nicola has every right to make the changes to his emulator that he feels are right. Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing Pong included in MAME. However, I love and appreciate Nicola's and the other MAME developers efforts even more so you will hear no complaints from me. I think that there has been too much belly-aching in general in the 'scene' lately and I am, frankly, growing tired of it. I must say that I was greatly surprised to see so many words of encouragement directed at the delayed release of UltraHLE 1.5. Truely, I had expected to see the nay-sayers out in full force over this one. It was refreshing to read all of the posts that basicly said "Take your time, do it right, we're in no rush". I think that if the 'scene' as a whole showed more of this sort of reaction on a consistant basis, we would have fewer of the bad-news stories that have become an increasing regularity as of late. Ok, I'm getting down off of my soap box now...

[Post a reply]

Name: Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2000 - (19:05)
Subject: Re: Amen to that, JoseQ!
From:
>I have to agree 100% with your views on the subject, Jose. Sure, I would personally like to see RAINE continue but I fully support Richard's decision to quit. It's his baby and I thank him greatly for what he has given me to enjoy while asking for nothing in return. I only wish that I had thought to getting around to saying "Thanks" BEFORE it was all over. I feel exactly the same about the recient complaints that MAME has recieved. Nicola has every right to make the changes to his emulator that he feels are right. Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing Pong included in MAME. However, I love and appreciate Nicola's and the other MAME developers efforts even more so you will hear no complaints from me. I think that there has been too much belly-aching in general in the 'scene' lately and I am, frankly, growing tired of it. I must say that I was greatly surprised to see so many words of encouragement directed at the delayed release of UltraHLE 1.5. Truely, I had expected to see the nay-sayers out in full force over this one. It was refreshing to read all of the posts that basicly said "Take your time, do it right, we're in no rush". I think that if the 'scene' as a whole showed more of this sort of reaction on a consistant basis, we would have fewer of the bad-news stories that have become an increasing regularity as of late. Ok, I'm getting down off of my soap box now...
>

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