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The Rumor Mill! - May 03,2001 by JoseQ
Ladies and gentlemen, guys and girls... Even though the site was closed for a few days, what a better way to re-open than with a brand spanking new Rumor Mill right? While the site was closed, I did dispatch my spy birds and have them do some investigating, resulting in quite a few reports coming in this week. So what's in the bag? Get this! Raine32, FreezeSMS, Mimic, Zeograd's game, GENS, JAE,screens from the latest FPSE, Bliss, TR64, AGES and a bit about Genital68K, and RockNES! Wow, it's going to take me a while to put all of that in writing, but let's get it on!
Starting with Raine32. What's that? Yes, I had previously reported that there would be no Raine32, but trust me, it wasn't in the plan until we noticed a shift recently! I was very glad to read that report. When is it coming out? I can't tell you that, as Atani seems to be working hard on resolving some issues with Allegro and Windows 2000. Still, stay tuned for that, as it should be released in the not too distant future. I'm also installing Linux on a powerful enough PC here at home, to play with the latest SegaEMU which we managed to snag recently. As soon as I get a break to finish that Linux installation, I'll be playing with it and report on it on the next Rumor Mill.
Next up is FreezeSMS. This report will probably trigger more questions rather than answer some, but you might still be happy to know that the FreezeSMS team has expanded to accomodate a new member. Who's this new member? A secret. What is he working on? Another secret. Well actually, this secret stuff he's working on, is the secret FreezeSMS feature that has been mentioned quite a few times here. I still don't know what it is, but I'm guess it's a big one, and with another guy helping, it should be with us sooner. I'll keep a closer eye on this to see if I can figure out what it is.
On the Mimic front, there was a release today, so I didn't expect to get a lot of juice out of this report. However, we might expect the Beaver to work on the 6502 (NES) emulation shortly. There's also the issue with this unemulated game which is getting closer and closer to making it to the 'emulated' world.
About Zeograd's game, I've learned that the prototype they were working on has been scrapped, and they will be using a new model for the new game. You can actually download what they had before from the "Creations / Download" section on the Zeograd site, under the title "Dragon 2 Win". The new model should provide smoother, more fluid gaming due to having smaller, more reasonable sprites (for that hardware).
On the GENS camp, we've found information leading to work still being done on the YM2612 chip emulation. It's progressing quite nicely, although don't expect to see it included in the next release as it's still not a good performer. There's also some fixes going into the Load/Save state in the next release, so watch out for that.
I didn't get a lot info on JAE as Norbert seems to be a bit stuck working on the Vector games emulation. There seem to be some pretty nasty problems which still hold this game in 'questionable' status as to whether or not they'll be able to make it onto a browser near you. I guess we'll find out in the coming weeks.
I did get a very nice package in one of those reports coming from the secret vault at the FPSE! The package included a ton of screenshots from "Medal of Honor Underground" running on the emulator. Check them out:

Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2
Screenshot 3
Screenshot 4
Screenshot 5
Screenshot 6
Screenshot 7
Screenshot 8
Screenshot 9
Screenshot 10
Screenshot 11
Screenshot 12

Current plans have FPSE coming out to the public before the end of July. Sounds like a long time, but time flies during the summer.

Some good news from the Bliss camp. It was recently accepted as a project at SourceForge, so like many other emulation projects, it is now under source control which is very useful when there's more than one contributor. Kyle seems to be close to that release that will fix those DirectX problems thanks to contributions from '3vi1'. Another thing this guy is working on is a future front-end for Xanadu (which will see a name change soon). Qmeister has also learned that the Bliss author might be looking to do some other emulation work before the end of the year. This makes a lot of sense given the state of Intellivision emulation achieved by Kyle.
I just got some bits on information on TR64 which might seem a bit normal, since most people actually work on this. However, the only thing we've been seeing the TR64 guys do for the past few days is work on optimizations and nothing else. They want to squeeze every bit of power from your CPU into graphics and sound speed. So I guess the next version should at least be a bit faster among other things.
Quinntesson has been seen working on AGES in recent times. His latest deeds include mostly work related to sound. There has been a lot of progress and Quinntesson expects to have a release out with sound by next month!
On the Genital68K front, we've learned that Bart is working on re-ordering instruction handlers which should result in improved cache performance on this core. We've also seen Bart working on some Saturn development and having fun with it. We'll see how that unfolds in the future.
The other small report came in from the RockNES camp. While we know that Fx3 is soon to be retired from working on the emulator as he has a new job that is quite taxing on his time, reports indicate that he is still finding some spare time to have fun with his emulator.
Well folks, that all I have for Rumors for this week. This is probably one of the longest Rumor Mills in quite some time, so I hope you enjoyed it. Until next week, Qmeister signs off, and thanks for reading!

One Article Up: bleem! for DC at EB World!
One Article Down: EmuViews is back!

Add Your Comments

Name: Kevin Posted: Thursday, June 28, 2001 - (16:22)
Subject:
From: spider-ntc-td034.proxy.aol.com
It says on Nintendo's and the IDSA's web sites that the availability of games is not relevant to copyright status, and copyrights are still valid even for games no longer sold in stores. The fact that a game is "difficult to find in stores" is just a blatent and bogus excuse that many use to justify downloading an old game.

Can you please tell me what law says that copyrights automatically expire when they are not commercially sold anymore?

I don't care if a game was made yesterday or 50 years ago. The copyrights are still good, and emulation of copyrighted video games must be completely be done away with--FOREVER!

[Post a reply]

Name: Del Posted: Saturday, May 5, 2001 - (22:43)
Subject: re: Hits r Down
From: 62.252.128.5
I am writing to complain....not

My hits on my webpage r down now....

Glad ure back online...

fuck them all........

http://www.madasafish.com/~mameroms

Del

[Post a reply]

Name: Oilers Posted: Saturday, May 5, 2001 - (12:56)
Subject: TGFJ!!
From: 206.75.216.110
Thank God for Jose!
Actually I am quite pleased that this site is back up running large and in charge. I used to run my own BBS back in the days of yore and had to deal with a bunch of attacks. I am glad Jose was able to see right through the disturbed individual(s) and was able to realize that the opinions of the few does not affect the many! I am very please to see this site back up and I thank Jose for just being tough and sticking things out!

This site and to all that is involved.. in a word... ROCK!

Good Job and keep the love alive! :-)

[Post a reply]

Name: Posted: Saturday, March 15, 2003 - (14:08)
Subject: Re: TGFJ!!
From: cache4-2.jed.isu.net.sa
>Thank God for Jose!
>Actually I am quite pleased that this site is back up running large and in charge. I used to run my own BBS back in the days of yore and had to deal with a bunch of attacks. I am glad Jose was able to see right through the disturbed individual(s) and was able to realize that the opinions of the few does not affect the many! I am very please to see this site back up and I thank Jose for just being tough and sticking things out!
>
>This site and to all that is involved.. in a word... ROCK!
>
>Good Job and keep the love alive! :-)
>

[Post a reply]

Name: Dorsola Posted: Saturday, May 5, 2001 - (5:43)
Subject: Moderator comment
From: 64.130.183.9
I've noticed some people here seem to be at odds with each other and have some pretty strong disagreements over certain topics. It's fine to disagree on things, and you should feel free to express your opinions - whether they be positive or negative. The new moderator staff (of which I am now a member) is not here to police conversations or to discourage negative feedback.

BUT: Please, if you disagree with someone, don't resort to calling them names or otherwise openly flaming them - even if they are "asking for it". Open flames, personal attacks, evidence of one user deliberately impersonating another, etc. can and will be removed from the boards - that's what we're here for. =) If you must tell someone off, please do it via e-mail.

Thanks.

[Post a reply]

Name: Cyriades Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (14:29)
Subject: Welcome Back JoseQ!!
From: 208.242.119.249
I'm glad to see the closing wasn't permanent!! this is one of the first sites that helped me get hooked on emulation, along with Emux!

I was sad and scared when i heard about ya closing down, seems like a lot of emu sites closing and emu authors quitting the scene these days. But that's how it's just about always been, it seems, :P

if Sardu was still around, he would know what to do, :P

but at least we still have MAME, and EmuViews!! Big *phew* on those two!!

[Post a reply]

Name: pers Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (22:42)
Subject: state of the art
From: 63.15.233.67
Welcome back Q,

I was interested in the comments about roms with people ranting about their "right" to be able to download pacman and other classic roms from your site.

Recently I took a visit to my local arcade and noticed that there were a bunch of twenty- and thirtysomethings pumping quarters into pacman, galaga, ghosts and goblins, centipede etc. These were NEW arcade game that carried a selection of classic games using a sort of front end with secreenshots - a lot like a MAME cabinet with a frontend selection screen carrying screenshots. There was a whole corridor of these cabinets in my small local arcade and they were very popular.
So it seems that the arcadegame industry has caught on to the fact that some of us love to play classic games and now they are rehashing these classics in new cabinets and making money from them again.
This means that from the manufacturers perspective these old games are analagous to the newer games since the manufacturer and copyright holder is CURRENTLY generating revenue from these games.

So its a little ironic....

On the one hand you could say that this is what we all wanted - preservation of the classic games, being able to play these games and enjoy the memories in the arcades.

However on the other hand, maybe its bad news for those people who either can't or dont want to play in the arcades. You can now expect companies like NAMCO to chase those who distribute and maintain classic roms, and to legitimately enforce their copyright.

Happy days?

Personan

[Post a reply]

 Name: Dave Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (11:20)
Subject: Re: state of the art
From: 65.2.171.154
Personan, All:

I had to make just one more comment. Personan, your comments just flat out suck. I can't begin to illustrate with words how assholish your comments are. You should just stick to your AOL hometown chatroom, you're a lamer not a gamer.

But that's not what wrote back for. I wanted to make one simple observation for you "purists" that say roms are not important. Just what the hell are you EMULATING without roms???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Post a reply]

 Name: janet Posted: Sunday, June 10, 2001 - (11:40)
Subject: state of truth
From: 1cust32.tnt4.corpus-christi3.tx.da.uu.ne•#;
WELL ALL I'M GONNA SAY IS LOSER,AND THAT MAY EXPLAIN EVERYTHING YOU ARE IN SIMPLE TERMS.I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE A PLACE TO BE SAYING ANYTHING LIKE THAT WHEN YOU MOST LIKELY NEVER DONE ANYTHING USEFUL IN YOUR LIFE!!!!!!
MANURE THAT EXPLAINS YOU!

[Post a reply]

 Name: janet Posted: Sunday, June 10, 2001 - (11:40)
Subject: Re: Re: state of the art
From: 1cust32.tnt4.corpus-christi3.tx.da.uu.neä”#;
WELL ALL I'M GONNA SAY IS LOSER,AND THAT MAY EXPLAIN EVERYTHING YOU ARE IN SIMPLE TERMS.I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE A PLACE TO BE SAYING ANYTHING LIKE THAT WHEN YOU MOST LIKELY NEVER DONE ANYTHING USEFUL IN YOUR LIFE!!!!!!
MANURE THAT EXPLAINS YOU!

[Post a reply]

Name: pers Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (13:22)
Subject: Re: Re: state of the art
From: 63.11.146.43
Wow thats a constructive comment Dave.

pers

[Post a reply]

 Name: Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (10:54)
Subject: Re: state of the art
From: 65.2.171.154
>Welcome back Q,
>
>I was interested in the comments about roms with people ranting about their "right" to be able to download pacman and other classic roms from your site.
>
>Recently I took a visit to my local arcade and noticed that there were a bunch of twenty- and thirtysomethings pumping quarters into pacman, galaga, ghosts and goblins, centipede etc. These were NEW arcade game that carried a selection of classic games using a sort of front end with secreenshots - a lot like a MAME cabinet with a frontend selection screen carrying screenshots. There was a whole corridor of these cabinets in my small local arcade and they were very popular.
>So it seems that the arcadegame industry has caught on to the fact that some of us love to play classic games and now they are rehashing these classics in new cabinets and making money from them again.
>This means that from the manufacturers perspective these old games are analagous to the newer games since the manufacturer and copyright holder is CURRENTLY generating revenue from these games.
>
>So its a little ironic....
>
>On the one hand you could say that this is what we all wanted - preservation of the classic games, being able to play these games and enjoy the memories in the arcades.
>
>However on the other hand, maybe its bad news for those people who either can't or dont want to play in the arcades. You can now expect companies like NAMCO to chase those who distribute and maintain classic roms, and to legitimately enforce their copyright.
>
>Happy days?
>
>Personan
>

Personan?

What do you work for Namco pal? How about this scenario answer man: There hasn't been an arcade wher I live in 15 years. Besides genius you also miss the point as well. THE POINT IS - In the United States of America it is legal to own backup copies of software. Now ROMs kind of push that since they are more (hlep me Q) firmware / electronically programmable Read Only Memory. Regardless without emulators my colecovision, lynx, and so forth would be unprotected. So again THE POINT IS Q HAS THE DISCLAIMOR'S, and PULLING THE ROMS VOLUNTARILY NOT ONLY MAKES ONE LOOK SUSPECT, BUT WILL GRAVELY DAMAGE THE EMULATION SCENE.

[Post a reply]

 Name: pers Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (13:32)
Subject: Re: Re: state of the art
From: 63.11.146.43
>THE POINT IS - In the United States of America it is legal to own backup copies of software.

THE POINT IS - It is legal if you own the arcade board and Im willing to bet that most webmasters who own rom collections dont own every board. Therefore when they post a rom collection they are taking a risk. Thats why you should respect their choice - alternatively put up a site yourself if you feel so strongly.

And no, unfortunately I dont work for NAMCO.

pers

[Post a reply]

 Name: Paratech Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (0:34)
Subject: I disagree
From: 206.98.252.45
There was a nice write up in USA Today a few years back where a Microsoft Programmer stated he saw emulation as 'hard core' gamers...

There's truth in that, no matter how good MAME *and other arcade emus* are it takes a bit of work to optimize them on your PC, whereas Namco Museum can be booted up on a Playstation/Dreamcast/N64 in a matter of seconds....

It's the hardcore gamers who will pay $0.25 to play Pac Man in the arcade, many of us still do *assuming we have an arcade in our areas, I don't*

Also, Namco and other companies have known of emulation for a long time, otherwise how do you explain the Hanaho Capcom CD (?) It makes money off of MAME and Capcom made it possible, I'm sure they know of Nebula/Final Burn/MAME as well...

Those who wish to destroy emulation don't need a reason and those who seek to profit off of emulation won't care...

More websites will fall this year over financial problems than by 'hidden lamers' or 'Nintendo and the IDSA possee'...

Although Game Boy Advance emulation will cause havok :(

[Post a reply]

Name: Sugga Daddy Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (21:23)
Subject: YAY!
From: 208.63.236.25
Good to see the site is up again Jose :). BTW if you ever need a jenny jones webdesign makeover contact me via email i'll hook you up. Free of course. Its jesse@suggadaddystudios.com irc handle Jesse-SD.

[Post a reply]

Name: Eric Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (20:38)
Subject: Fantastic!
From: 206.170.29.236
It's Good to Have You Back in the Game Jose-Q! This site has always been one of my favs.

[Post a reply]

Name: Ken Long Jr Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (20:03)
Subject: EMUVIEWS
From: 204.116.140.140
Hi, this is my first time viewing EMUVIEWS and I just wanna say that this site is great, I have been checking out emulation64 for quite some time now and just never clicked on the link. Until I saw that is had been closed, then the rant when it reopened, well, curiosity killed me. So I came, I read, and I gotta tell ya, I really enjoyed it. I have plenty of opinions on the current state of emulation, But I will save them for a later post. JoseQ, It's good to meet you and keep up the excellent work, great great site.

[Post a reply]

 Name: JoseQ Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (21:06)
Subject: Re: EMUVIEWS
From: 24.93.19.224
I'm always glad to greet new visitors. I'm glad you like the site. =)

JoseQ

[Post a reply]

Name: JAMES Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (18:49)
Subject: WELCOME BACK
From: 62.7.90.251
WELCOME BACK JOSE!

I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I'VE BEEN PLAYING VIDEO GAMES FOR 18 YRS NOW.

+THE GREED OF SUCH COMPANIES AS NINTENDO DISGUSTS ME! WE THE GAMING COMMUNITY HAVE PUT BILLIONS INTO THEIR POCKETS & THEY WISH TO STOP EMULATION OF THESE ONCE BEAUTIFUL BUT NOW OBSOLETE CONSOLES. THEY NO LONGER PROFIT FROM THEM- SO WHY?

HOWEVER DISTRIBUTION OF ROMS WHICH ARE STILL COMMERICIALLY ON SALE IS WRONG & SHOULD BE STOPPED FOR THE SAKE OF EMULATION & THE GAMING COMMUNITY IN GENERAL!

I'D LIKE TO THANK JOSE & CO FOR HELPING ME REKINDLE SOME OF MY YOUTH. THIS IS WHAT EMULATION IS ABOUT, BEING PART OF VIDEO GAME HISTORY!!!!

[Post a reply]

 Name: Kurgan Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (1:17)
Subject: I agree...
From: 63.224.188.191
That was quite forcefully stated, and I pretty much can't find anything in it I disagree with.
; )



>WELCOME BACK JOSE!
>
>I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I'VE BEEN PLAYING VIDEO GAMES FOR 18 YRS NOW.
>
>+THE GREED OF SUCH COMPANIES AS NINTENDO DISGUSTS ME! WE THE GAMING COMMUNITY HAVE PUT BILLIONS INTO THEIR POCKETS & THEY WISH TO STOP EMULATION OF THESE ONCE BEAUTIFUL BUT NOW OBSOLETE CONSOLES. THEY NO LONGER PROFIT FROM THEM- SO WHY?
>
>HOWEVER DISTRIBUTION OF ROMS WHICH ARE STILL COMMERICIALLY ON SALE IS WRONG & SHOULD BE STOPPED FOR THE SAKE OF EMULATION & THE GAMING COMMUNITY IN GENERAL!
>
>I'D LIKE TO THANK JOSE & CO FOR HELPING ME REKINDLE SOME OF MY YOUTH. THIS IS WHAT EMULATION IS ABOUT, BEING PART OF VIDEO GAME HISTORY!!!!
>

[Post a reply]

Name: Xeron Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (17:55)
Subject: State of Emulation (as it were!)
From: 172.170.78.89
The good ones like "The Dump" are gone the way of the dodo but the reliable news sites remain, and if you are a hardcore rommer or "retrogamer" you WILL find the roms you need!
ive been in the "Scene" since 1995 and im still contributing Game Boy Dumps and soon will be ReDumping Snes Sites like my "Project DMG-01" are alive and well, I say let the BIG "N" come calling ill tell em where to stick it lets try to see em persue me!
that when i go underground and release thru other channels (just not on the web) well Jose ive been a loyal for many, many years (seems like) and even tho i dont care for the Retrogames site possible cause they never once posted news about my site!, ill always defend the Great JoseQ!!

G'Luck Jose.... Present and Future!

- Xeron

[Post a reply]

Name: Kurgan Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (1:20)
Subject: Re: State of Emulation (as it were!)
From: 63.224.188.191
Interesting you mention the "Dump" once that site went down, I realized the impermeance of emulation websites. I guess that is why I didn't get all teary eyed and angry when Mame.dk went down, etc. And back in the day we had emulators begin and end all the time.. GenEm anyone? How about NESticle? The first time I heard of that emu, it the author had "quit" because of lamers, then he came back, etc. etc.

A lot of the stuff happening now in the scene isn't so unusual when you look back.

I could tell you some stories about the Dump.. that would probably make modern emu scene folks cringe, but I'll spare you in this forum. ; )

The temper of Nintendo and the IDSA flares up now and then, but the scene keeps on in some way or another. The dot com massare of 2000 continues to send ripples throughout the online world, but those are problems everyone has, not just emulation sites.

The "lamer" problem has been a problem since day 1...

Kurgan

>The good ones like "The Dump" are gone the way of the dodo but the reliable news sites remain, and if you are a hardcore rommer or "retrogamer" you WILL find the roms you need!
>ive been in the "Scene" since 1995 and im still contributing Game Boy Dumps and soon will be ReDumping Snes Sites like my "Project DMG-01" are alive and well, I say let the BIG "N" come calling ill tell em where to stick it lets try to see em persue me!
>that when i go underground and release thru other channels (just not on the web) well Jose ive been a loyal for many, many years (seems like) and even tho i dont care for the Retrogames site possible cause they never once posted news about my site!, ill always defend the Great JoseQ!!
>
>G'Luck Jose.... Present and Future!
>
>- Xeron
>

[Post a reply]

Name: D@Z Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (16:00)
Subject: Quality
From: 62.252.224.5
Another great rumour mill Joseq.
You only just got it squeezed in this week ;-)

[Post a reply]

Name: j4Ck Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (17:53)
Subject: back
From: 206.55.157.168
Glad everything is back, Jose!
No more vacations, please, you scare us!
All your rumour are belong to us!!!

[Post a reply]

Name: Dexter Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (13:32)
Subject: Welcome out Joseq!
From: 212.43.206.55
so expect more releases,that's great for me and my frined
i Can't wait for Raine32
and the Mame for windows!

see ya,and good work



[Post a reply]

Name: David Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (10:39)
Subject: State of The Emulation Nation
From: 65.2.171.154
You state that emulation is not dying and that it will always be developed by someone. This may be true, someone will always develop, but for the average enduser who wants to play pac man and the like it is looking pretty grim.
Every time someone like you stops rom downloads the emulation scene is severely hurt. The more people they get to fold voluntarily the darker it looks.
In fact by ceasing downloads you make yourself appear in some way culpable.
This doesn't make sense, you have your disclaimer on rom downloads. You even set your sight up so one has to agree to the disclaimer per download.
Removing your ROMS for download is a sure step towards the death of the PUBLIC emulation scene.
What a dissapointment :o(

[Post a reply]

 Name: Ivan from Spain Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (13:34)
Subject: Re: State of The Emulation Nation
From: 212.59.212.34
It's damned easy to say this page is a crap, then why dont you just found an ultra fast server with lotto downloads? please respect the job of other people, bear in mind that for you it's for free

[Post a reply]

 Name: Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (14:16)
Subject: Re: Re: State of The Emulation Nation
From: 65.2.171.154
>It's damned easy to say this page is a crap, then why dont you just found an ultra fast server with lotto downloads? please respect the job of other people, bear in mind that for you it's for free
>You are clearly confused, or a moron. I never said anything about there being a lack of quality on this page. Just the opposite Jose Q has run possibly the finest emulation page on the net. I have never in the past two years, nor currently have anything but prais efor his work.
My statement was that REMOVING ROMS MAKES YOU LOOK GUILTY OF SOMETHING - Better to leave them with all due legal disclaimors.
It's easy to say that emulation is more than roms, uhmmm yeahh. However without the roms endusers have no way of getting back up copies ( A UNITED STATES LEGAL RIGHT) of there game software. My whole point was that once a leader (Jose Q) falls, the rest of the emu troops will not be far behind.
Start Posting those ROMS on the Newsgroups kids!

[Post a reply]

 Name: -^Cro§Bow^- Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (11:19)
Subject: State of The Emulation Nation
From: 192.204.130.228
David:

You have to realize that regardless of the fact as to whether roms being made available or not constitute the validity and strength of the Emu Scene that roms also bring about other potential issues that a Site must be prepared to handle. Downloads cause bandwidth usages. Usually to rather high levels. This bandwidth comes at a great cost, a cost that so far has been provided free of charge to you but at some considerable expense to JoseQ.
Roms also bring about a much larger issue regarding the Legalities of storing such a Library. It isn't enough anymore to simply have disclaimers stating that the individuals will have to face the consequences of their actions when downloading a rom they do not possess the rights to have. In fact sites have been shut down just mearly for hosting the roms now. JQ has spend too much time, energy, and most of all money only to have something trivial that can be found at other sites willing to take the risk bring him down. Such actions wouldn't just take the site down PERMANENTLY....but would also cause undo stress to JQ, his family and their future.

I say let the roms go if they prove to risky to host.

Now who wants this soapbox next?!

[Post a reply]

 Name: flabioh Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (12:11)
Subject: Re: State of The Emulation Nation
From: 155.99.36.11
Crossbow,
I couldn't agree more. Emulation isn't all about the roms and playing games. It's about emulating the hardware that was designed to play the games. Granted, emulation wouldn't be that cool unless you can actually experience it, but emulation won't necessarily "die" because roms no longer become unavailable. Besides, I don't think there will ever be a time when roms won't be available. You just have to take the time to search for it, but anything is available to you if you look for it.

Anyway, to my point. This site rocks because it does what it's supposed to really well. It informs individuals like me what's going on in the emulation world, and keeps me continually interested in a hobby that I have found much enjoyment from.

Thanks for all the hard work JoseQ and long live emulation!

Flabioh
>David:
>
>You have to realize that regardless of the fact as to whether roms being made available or not constitute the validity and strength of the Emu Scene that roms also bring about other potential issues that a Site must be prepared to handle. Downloads cause bandwidth usages. Usually to rather high levels. This bandwidth comes at a great cost, a cost that so far has been provided free of charge to you but at some considerable expense to JoseQ.
>Roms also bring about a much larger issue regarding the Legalities of storing such a Library. It isn't enough anymore to simply have disclaimers stating that the individuals will have to face the consequences of their actions when downloading a rom they do not possess the rights to have. In fact sites have been shut down just mearly for hosting the roms now. JQ has spend too much time, energy, and most of all money only to have something trivial that can be found at other sites willing to take the risk bring him down. Such actions wouldn't just take the site down PERMANENTLY....but would also cause undo stress to JQ, his family and their future.
>
>I say let the roms go if they prove to risky to host.
>
>Now who wants this soapbox next?!
>
>

[Post a reply]

 Name: Kurgan Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (1:41)
Subject: I respectfully disagree...
From: 63.224.188.191
While the idea of emulation is essentially about preserving the hardware, the "nice side effect" is being able to play the games. A good hunk of code for the hardware, minus the software is esentially worthless to 99.9% of the people in the scene. The people who benefit from having the hardware are the developers and emu authors who understand and can appreciate it.

The scene would be nothing but a small cocktail party of emu developers without roms. Nobody but them would care too much, to be honest.

People need the roms in order to play the games. The rhetoric I keep hearing from the non-developers (not everyone has the time and talent to spend tracking down these games, researching them and coding stuff) is that emulation is a good becaus it:

Let's them relive their childhood/youth with games they remember playing.

It preserves gaming history. You can play old games, that defined genres, etc.

It gives developers of the original games pleasure to know their games are being played (okay, other than Nintendo and Sony, but just about everyone else, at least for the older games).

All of these assume of course, that you can play the games (impossible with the game roms).

So really, the rhetoric that its preserving the code is all well and good, but only for that tiny percentage that actually codes the emulators. If they are the only ones meant to benefit and the only ones they are doing it for, then the whole rest of the scene is pointless. They should just admit they are preserving the hardware code, for future programmers to appreciate, not to keep gaming memories alive.

My peace.

Yeah, you can go on and on about the legal gray areas and the problems with Rom bandwidth, but to be honest, without roms, I wouldn't be in the scene at all, period. And that doesn't make me any less of scene member or good person because of that. I freely admit that's why I'm in the scene. I appreciate the games for what they are.. games. I am not a programmer, so I can't appreciate the codes anymore than seeing the game works and thinking whoever did it must have gotten it right.

I think playing the games is a perfectly valid reason to be part of the scene. And no, that doesn't mean you have to be a "rom begger." If I own a PCB or game that doesn't work anymore, I am out of luck, if I don't know how to make a good dump of the rom. So I need an emulator, that somebody else coded, and a rom, that somebody else made available, in order to continue playing my game. Or let's say I have the game, but I want to play it on my PC for whatever reasons.

Are you saying that I should NOT have the rom, since it's not just about the roms? I don't think you're implying that.

I think most of us can do at least that much (admit the roms = the ability to actually play the games, are the backbone of the community, for the vast majority of people, like it or not) Again, without roms, you end up with an elite community of programmers and emu authors, that's about it. Yes, that has some value, but that excludes about everyone else is all I'm saying.

So now, that doesn't mean JoseQ or anybody else HAS to put up 3+ gigs of files, because he owes us or something. Far from it, it just means you can't try to deny the prominent (if not primary) place roms hold in entire emulation scene (unless of course you want to limit the scene only to those developers and programmers that write the emulators).

Besides, emu authors need roms too, for testing and stuff. It's kind of like saying we should preserve Turn Tables, but ignore the importance of preserving vinyl LP's (records) to play on them. Without the media, they're just hunks of electronics that do nothing!

; )

Also I don't think it can be said that emulation will not "die" without roms. Without roms, it will be difficult, if not impossible to develope new hardware emulation, because you won't be able to test software, to test the hardware (think about it). Plus nobody but the emulation authors themselves would be able to appreciate hunks of code that do nothing (if it's a piece of gaming hardware, it's purpose is to play a game, without the game, it's just a hunk of circuits and code, like a refrigerator with nothing in it, or a book with nothing on its pages).

Roms have always been big on IRC and newsgroups, so I don't see much danger (short of nuclear war) of roms becoming completely unavailable. The scene today is more or less as it was in the early days.. a few sites with lots of files, more sites with only a few files, most sites with no files. Because a few more visible, big sites go down, after a long time of activity, people bemoan the death of the scene. An emu author quits, and people go into convulsions. I just don't buy it.

So the scene is dependant on roms. Yes, you can argue the scene is alway dependant on emu authors. This is true.. without them, you have no emulators, and so you just have roms, but you can't play them. So it goes both ways.

I think perhaps the argument you are trying to make is the one I just referred to, that the emu authors, not the roms are the backbone of emulation. But I would argue, without the roms, they can't get anything done (well maybe simulations, but that's another argument) except guesswork (simulations). Plus nobody can appreciate their work except other programmers, and how do they know their stuff even works, without roms to test?

So it's a cyclical thing. Anyway, I think you know where I stand.

It's about the games.. if you can't play the games, there's no point, for me (and I'm sure that applies to most if not all non-developers in the scene as well). I mean you can read about game history without emulation completely, you could do that before emulators were created. You can do that now.

Kurgan

>Crossbow,
>I couldn't agree more. Emulation isn't all about the roms and playing games. It's about emulating the hardware that was designed to play the games. Granted, emulation wouldn't be that cool unless you can actually experience it, but emulation won't necessarily "die" because roms no longer become unavailable. Besides, I don't think there will ever be a time when roms won't be available. You just have to take the time to search for it, but anything is available to you if you look for it.
>
>Anyway, to my point. This site rocks because it does what it's supposed to really well. It informs individuals like me what's going on in the emulation world, and keeps me continually interested in a hobby that I have found much enjoyment from.
>
>Thanks for all the hard work JoseQ and long live emulation!
>
>Flabioh
>>David:
>>
>>You have to realize that regardless of the fact as to whether roms being made available or not constitute the validity and strength of the Emu Scene that roms also bring about other potential issues that a Site must be prepared to handle. Downloads cause bandwidth usages. Usually to rather high levels. This bandwidth comes at a great cost, a cost that so far has been provided free of charge to you but at some considerable expense to JoseQ.
>>Roms also bring about a much larger issue regarding the Legalities of storing such a Library. It isn't enough anymore to simply have disclaimers stating that the individuals will have to face the consequences of their actions when downloading a rom they do not possess the rights to have. In fact sites have been shut down just mearly for hosting the roms now. JQ has spend too much time, energy, and most of all money only to have something trivial that can be found at other sites willing to take the risk bring him down. Such actions wouldn't just take the site down PERMANENTLY....but would also cause undo stress to JQ, his family and their future.
>>
>>I say let the roms go if they prove to risky to host.
>>
>>Now who wants this soapbox next?!
>>
>>
>

[Post a reply]

 Name: Dave Posted: Friday, May 4, 2001 - (11:09)
Subject: Re: I respectfully disagree...
From: 65.2.171.154
>To Kurgan,

WORD! It is about the games! Glad to see someone is honest. Some folks would have you beleive they run there emulators without game roms: "Wow what an awesome interface, and look how many game s it can support" (If I could download a ROM!)"

[Post a reply]

 Name: Greg Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (12:06)
Subject: Re: State of The Emulation Nation
From: 166.102.67.12
I understand emu site owners worrying about getting in trouble over
posting roms, but what if every site went this route? The emulators
really wouldn't be worth anything without roms. Also, I think if
these game companies are really going to sue, they would have to prove
in court that they are being damaged in some way from this. So tell me,
How could Namco prove in court that it was losing money for someone loading
and playing the pac-man arcade rom...A game thats time in the arcade has
passed 20 years ago? I admit I have thousands of roms for most every
emulator out there and these are all systems and arcade games that are no
longer making money for the parent company that made them. I don't support
or condone emulators for games currently for sale. So far the only illegal
emulators I see is the N-64 ones, and that is soon to be a dead system. As
soon as Nintendo stops making it, I'll start collecting roms for it too.
The playstation emulators are actually helping Sony, as it adds a new group
of users that can buy playstation games. So far every lawsuit brought against
emulation has failed. So they resort to cheap tricks and threats. The sad thing
is.. it's working.

[Post a reply]

 Name: MX-EMU Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (16:37)
Subject: Re: Re: State of The Emulation Nation
From: 209.217.137.167
Interesting that someone even has the balls to speculate on something like not being able to download roms from an emulation page. I myself ran a small emulation page for a long time almost a year and a half (nothing compared to others, but enough for me) and its not easy to keep all the imformation, programs and games updated. So unless you David are going to put out, you should really keep your mouth shut and be thankful for hard working people like JoseQ, and the others that put alot of their time and effort in to keeping the public informed and updated on the emulation news and the best stuff to get. Without pages like these I would be a bit more lost in the world of emulation.

MAX

P.S. Glad to have you back JoseQ.

[Post a reply]

Name: spiff Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (9:11)
Subject: missed EW
From: 193.10.171.200
Nice to see you back Jose... I was afraid that you'd joined DC, node99, emunews on my "retro" retro gaming list :)

Cheers
/Spiff

[Post a reply]

 Name: JuanKerr Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (14:50)
Subject: Re: missed EW
From: 62.7.249.5
>Nice to see you back Jose... I was afraid that you'd joined DC, node99, emunews on my "retro" retro gaming list :)
>
>Cheers
>/Spiff
>
>

Yes... I'm that old too, and while those sites are prestigious company to be in with, JoseQ fully deserves to be. Us quieter oldies appreciate quality sites like EmuViews.

[Post a reply]

Name: Greg Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (8:41)
Subject:
From: 166.102.67.180
OOPS.. I can't spell this morning.. it's too early.
lol
sorry. I was typing too fast there.
I know that should have been a "J"

[Post a reply]

Name: LoRd SePhIrOtH Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (7:03)
Subject: FM core??
From: 152.163.201.48
First off, kudos to Jose Q for keeping the site up...been visiting this site for 2 1/2 years, and seeing it close really got me down...but hey, i'm better now!!
Fm core...will that fix some of the nasty bleeps n stuff with the roms music in GENS?


[Post a reply]

Name: Clueless Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (2:45)
Subject: FPSE
From: 194.17.253.180
Well Call me Clueless and slap me silly, but what does system is it that FPSE emulates ? just wondering.

btw, good to see EmuViews back in all its glory.

[Post a reply]

 Name: TonyD Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (3:32)
Subject: Re: FPSE
From: 24.113.45.86
Hey, yo

>Well Call me Clueless and slap me silly, but what does system is it that FPSE emulates ? just wondering.
>

Playstation emulator

\\//, Tha D

[Post a reply]

 Name: Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (8:40)
Subject: Re: Re: FPSE
From: 62.106.48.4
>Hey, yo
>
>>Well Call me Clueless and slap me silly, but what does system is it that FPSE emulates ? just wondering.
>>
>
>Playstation emulator
>
>\\//, Tha D
>

[Post a reply]

 Name: Clueless Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (2:46)
Subject: Re: FPSE
From: 194.17.253.180
errr.. scratch the 'Does' in that comment ;)

[Post a reply]

Name: f-town Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (2:32)
Subject: nice to see the Rumor Mill...
From: 24.250.97.216
keep up the good work m8 :-D

[Post a reply]

Name: Emuviews Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (2:22)
Subject: Thanks JoseQ!!!
From: 155.246.1.104
Man, I gotta tell ya that for the past few days, I haven't cared much for emulation. This site is great with the news, and mostly because it gets updated so often and those wonderful icons you make. Thanks for returning. Let's hope everyone behaves from now on. You're irreplaceable JoseQ.

[Post a reply]

 Name: Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (2:23)
Subject: Re: Thanks JoseQ!!!
From: 155.246.1.104
Sorry about the Emuviews name, I meant to comment using my usual name, WTC.

[Post a reply]

Name: Frogacuda Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (1:26)
Subject:
From: 165.230.43.89
Nice RM. Hell of a return.

[Post a reply]

Name: lsd Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (1:23)
Subject: welcome back
From: 209.141.74.111
glad to have your site back, i normally dont write or communicate much, i just quietly enjoy emulation in the background and am greatful for whatever games i can play, when i was much younger i used to put myself to sleep at night dreaming of playing all my favorite arcade games and now they are all on my desktop,lots of people today are spoiled---keep on keeping on

[Post a reply]

Name: -^Cro§Bow^- Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2001 - (1:05)
Subject: Awesome!!!
From: 24.179.25.211
Gens getting a new FM core...Yeah!!!

FPSE with more killer screens to wet our whistles...Plus possible timeframe for a release...finally.

And Ages with sound?! Oh Yeah!...I will be all over that...way to go Quinntesson keep up that good work all of you!!!


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